This was just pointed out in the Skyrim threads and I had to look it up.

In the Morrowind MQ you can meet Wulf who as we know is Tiber Septim (Talos) in desguise, if you ask him about the empire he responds:

Does this basically mean that Talos believes his Empire has become redudant? and that he would actually support the spliting of the Nords from the Empire?




or is just over-reading this statement.

It does look that way. I always thought of it like he is trying to get the you to do something yourself and then gets disappointed that you do nothing but flee to Dragonland as your own nation gets annihilated because ofyour actions.

But that's just my opinion.

Personally I think Talos has been in the heavens long enough to see the bigger picture of things. Wulf just endears me more to Talos, who has largely been thought of as a war-only kind of god. Wulf proves otherwise. If we view Wulf in hindsight knowing the actions that occur in Skyrim in the 4th Era, we could assume that Talos either knew what was going to happen through divine precognition or disconnection from linear time or that he just had intuition that there would be a rebellion.

Maybe not necessarily believing that his Empire had become redundant. I figure he probably saw the signs of his Empire failing and was trying to get a strapping young hero to lead the recovery post-collapse.

Part of being a good war-god is knowing when and when not to divinely turn your lower subgradients towards bloody struggle.

Is it that Wulf's statements reflect the true state of the Empire....or is it that Wulf (as an avatar of Talos...who mantled Lorkhan/Shezarr...who is well known to have a plethora of Shezarrines showing up at times of trouble) is simply doing what Shezarrines do best. And what is that, you might ask? I think the quotes below sum it up pretty well. I have found that "trimming the fat" from tomes seems to put things into better perspective, at least for me. I know that this is a long post, but it does have a point should you have the patience to make it though it. LOL. ""In Mundus, conflict and disparity are what bring change. ... Sithis is thus the Original Creator, an entity who intrinsically causes change without design. ... This Creator-Trickster-Tester deity is in every Tamrielic mythic tradition. His most popular name is the Aldmeri "Lorkhan," or Doom Drum. He convinced or contrived the Original Spirits to bring about the creation of the Mortal Plane, upsetting the status quo much like his father [Sithis] had introduced instability into the universe in the Beginning Place. ... The magical beings of Mythic Aurbis live for a long time and have complex narrative lives, creating the patterns of myth. ... Gods and demons form and reform and procreate. ... The magical beings of Mythic Aurbis told the ultimate story -- that of their own death. ... This was a romantic marriage and parenthood, with the parent spirits naturally having to die and give way to the succeeding mortal race. ... This was a new thing that Shezarr described to the Gods, becoming mothers and fathers, being responsible, and making great sacrifices, with no guarantee of success, but Shezarr spoke beautifully to them, and moved them beyond mystery and tears...and afterwards the Aedra were no longer young, and strong, and powerful, as they had been from the beginning of days. . " (http://www.imperial-library.info/content/monomyth) Now compare that with his words to the Nerevarine..."It's been a good thing, by and large. But maybe it's time for a change. Time for something young and new. What? No idea. Because I'm old. Old dog doesn't get new ideas. But maybe young folks like you should try some new ideas. Could be messy. But change is never pretty." (Wulf) "One of these, Lorkhan, was more of a limit than a nature, so he could never last long anywhere." (http://www.imperial-library.info/content/monomyth) After reading that one, the next one makes more sense --> "An immortal hero, warrior, sorceror, and king variously known as Pelinal Whitestrake, Harrald Hairy Breeks, Ysmir, Hans the Fox, etc., wanders Tamriel, gathering armies, conquering lands, ruling, then abandoning his kingdoms to wander again." (http://www.imperial-library.info/content/merethic-era) "...(and this is why those who let their souls burn anyway are beloved of the Dragon and His Kin), and she said: "And this thing I have thought of, I have named it, and I call it freedom. Which I think is just another word for Shezarr Who Goes Missing... (http://www.imperial-library.info/content/song-pelinal-volume-2-his-coming) I apologize for the lack of formal structure, but it's late. Yours in the Scrolls, ___The Word Merchant of Julianos

You always have really good stuff.

Am i understand you right, that "Wulf" may have been refering to the Aedra instead of/aswell as the Imperial Empire? aka, new Blood in the Divines to replace the weakened older ones?

Basically, Shor's role is to upset the status quo... to destroy the old and bring in the new. This is how Men usually view creation: The Aedra sacrifced themselves to allow the new, young mortals to take their place. The Septim Empire is old, and it's time for something new to happen.

It makes me wonder why Shor is against the kalpa cycles... I'm kinda disappointed that he is, to tell the truth. Yeah, he wants everyone to achieve CHIM and all, but still.

Word Merchant! Welcome back! Great post as always.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=np0solnL1XY. Goodbye Shor. It sure was fun.

Nice stringing together of concepts. I've never thought of it that way before. Pelinal abandoned places with manic frequency. Talos did so in the same fashion according to you, but it just took him longer to abandon the kingdom he created. Maybe abandon isn't the right word because it carries such negative connotations. More like the way a mother bird pushes her young from the nest.

I always thought he was just on about the Septim empire, and it was a nod to the events of Oblivion *shrug*

Wouldn't the kalpa cycles be the status quo? The same thing happening over and over again with miniscule changes, whereas breaking the cycle allows it to continue on and have new stuff happen.

There's that, too. I forgot kalpas are supposdly almost exactly the same.

But are they? Much of Skyrim acts like it would be a new world, not the same thing.