A few holes in the Thalmor's whole 'Talos is a lie' claim.

Post » Mon May 07, 2012 10:34 pm

Idle conjecture : the selectives wanted to change the nature of the Cyrodiilic Akatosh. Maybe the Thalmor want to escape Mundus by mantling, as a race, Auri'el, but have a plan to change the nature of the god. If they get enough people to believe the divinity of Talos is a lie, could they be trying to imprint that on the Mythic, so they can mantle a version of Auri'el who sees through the lies of Lorkhan? Sounds odd, I know, but rather than unmaking the world, are they trying to get their Aedra to somehow not be stupid enough to fall for making it in the first place?
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James Rhead
 
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Post » Tue May 08, 2012 12:50 am

They still have too wipe mankind from existence too un-make the world correct.
That sounds kinda hard too me.
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Chrissie Pillinger
 
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Post » Mon May 07, 2012 9:37 pm

Idle conjecture : the selectives wanted to change the nature of the Cyrodiilic Akatosh. Maybe the Thalmor want to escape Mundus by mantling, as a race, Auri'el, but have a plan to change the nature of the god. If they get enough people to believe the divinity of Talos is a lie, could they be trying to imprint that on the Mythic, so they can mantle a version of Auri'el who sees through the lies of Lorkhan? Sounds odd, I know, but rather than unmaking the world, are they trying to get their Aedra to somehow not be stupid enough to fall for making it in the first place?

The Aedra are stuck, even Mr. fancy-dragon-pants Auri El. Only way to un-stick 'em is to shut down the whole convention machine. Trouble is, if the Thalmor reach for the lever they'll get thwomped by Talos or another Shezarrine. Ergo, they must remove Talos.
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ashleigh bryden
 
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Post » Mon May 07, 2012 7:36 pm

1. The Elder Scrolls.

There are several of them on Nirn and some people have the ability to interpret them. And seeing as they are a veritable tapestry of fate, I'd say that Tiber Septims ascent to godliness would be recorded on them somewhere.

I'm aware that the Thalmor use the ban on Talos worship as a means to weaken the empire, but seeing as the Aldmarri Dominion are probably arrogant to believe their own BS, the Elder Scrolls would cause their reasoning for the White-Gold Concordat's Talos ban to lose any and all legitimacy.
The content of the Elder Scrolls are unknown to almost everyone on Nirn, and generally their contents are not shared with the public when they're deciphered.

2. The Talos Shrines

As many people know, those who pay at Aedra shrines receive a 'boon' from the gods. So the mere fact that a boon is received at a Talos shrine, the same as any other shrine, is proof of Talos' status.
So too can you get blessings from ancestral shrines and things of that nature. Just because you get a blessing or something doesn't necessarily mean the person that shrine is dedicated to is a god, merely that they are worshiped, which obviously, Talos is.

3. Martin Septim's ritual.

As many know, for Martin to open the gate to Mankar Camoran's paradise he required the blood of a Divine, and the blood of Tiber Septim, taken from a scraping of his old armor, worked.
Again, Martin's ritual is not public knowledge. The most anyone would ever know is part of the ritual was "blood of a divine."

4. Proof

Just as the Thalmor may claim that there is no proof that Talos is a god, they have no proof that he isn't other than a self-righteous notion that it's inconceivable for a human to be granted godhood before one of the mighty high elves.
The burden of proof is on those who would claim something exists. You can't prove a negative.


These aside, The Thalmor are obviously wrong in saying Talos is not a god, but as far as trying to convince the public of it, there's nothing really standing in their way (besides the public themselves, of course.)
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Roddy
 
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Post » Tue May 08, 2012 3:15 am

The Aedra are stuck, even Mr. fancy-dragon-pants Auri El. Only way to un-stick 'em is to shut down the whole convention machine. Trouble is, if the Thalmor reach for the lever they'll get thwomped by Talos or another Shezarrine. Ergo, they must remove Talos.
I appreciate that, but there is obviously a difference between what we know, and what the Thalmor know, or more importantly want to believe.
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Vicki Gunn
 
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Post » Mon May 07, 2012 6:08 pm

I appreciate that, but there is obviously a difference between what we know, and what the Thalmor know, or more importantly want to believe.

There are nuances sure, but Shezarrine-proofing the mass Dracochrysalis is the basic skinny.
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Brad Johnson
 
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Post » Mon May 07, 2012 9:28 pm

The Aedra are stuck, even Mr. fancy-dragon-pants Auri El. Only way to un-stick 'em is to shut down the whole convention machine. Trouble is, if the Thalmor reach for the lever they'll get thwomped by Talos or another Shezarrine. Ergo, they must remove Talos.

Well since a Dragonborn walks the Mundus again, it seems that they're still gonna get thwomped. :smile:

Once you get to a high enough level, you pretty much have to completely svck at playing Skyrim to lose against a Thalmor justiciary squad. Give them a rebuttal to their "Talos worship is immoral" line... draconic argument style. ;)
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victoria gillis
 
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Post » Tue May 08, 2012 5:02 am

They still have too wipe mankind from existence too un-make the world correct.
That sounds kinda hard too me.

Nope, all they have to do is make everybody believe that Talos is not a god and stop people from worshiping him, hence their propaganda and persecution of Talos-worshipers. That way, Mundus will be unraveled because in TES lore, if everybody believes it, it is true, this little Tulpa thing. When Mundus is unraveled, everything goes back to the start of Anu and Padomay's first stroke, and I believe the Altmer think that they'll become gods again and this time manage to erase the Possibility of mankind forever, getting rid of mankind permanently and stopping them from showing up in any future kalpas.
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Laura Tempel
 
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Post » Mon May 07, 2012 7:24 pm

1) Erase the Upstart Talos from the mythic. His presence fortifies the Wheel of the Convention, and binds our souls to this plane.
2) Remove Man not just from the world, but from the Pattern of Possibility, so that the very idea of them can be forgotten and thereby never again repeated.
3) With Talos and the Sons of Talos removed, the Dragon will become ours to unbind. The world of mortals will be over. The Dragon will uncoil his hold on the stagnancy of linear time and move as Free Serpent again, moving through the Aether without measure or burden, spilling time along the innumerable roads we once travelled. And with that we will regain the mantle of the imperishable spirit.


Sounds to me like they need to remove all men as well.
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Jeffrey Lawson
 
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Post » Tue May 08, 2012 2:22 am

Sounds to me like they need to remove all men as well.

Well, with control of the Empire, they can pretty much do that with a war against the weak provinces.

Also, what about Akavir? How do we know they don't worship Talos? (although seeing as he was killing the dragons, which are from Akavir, they'd probably hate him)
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Amanda savory
 
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Post » Mon May 07, 2012 10:02 pm

Well, with control of the Empire, they can pretty much do that with a war against the weak provinces.

Also, what about Akavir? How do we know they don't worship Talos? (although seeing as he was killing the dragons, which are from Akavir, they'd probably hate him)

Seeing also that he's from Tamriel and they would have no real reason to know him as well as the people in Tamriel I find it rather unlikely. Still perhaps the Altmer will want to destroy the rest of the world after finishing with Tamriel.
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Emily Rose
 
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Post » Mon May 07, 2012 10:23 pm

They would probably know him at least as a god, seeing as how the Akaviri ruled over Tamriel for a time. That and the Nerevarine, when he made his expidition into Akavir, could have spread knowledge of him.
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Nick Jase Mason
 
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Post » Mon May 07, 2012 11:49 pm

They would probably know him at least as a god, seeing as how the Akaviri ruled over Tamriel for a time. That and the Nerevarine, when he made his expidition into Akavir, could have spread knowledge of him.

The Akaviri were in Tamriel long before Talos was even born, let alone stand became a god. What the Nerevarine did, or did not do or might have done or might not have done is entirely up to you. But I wouldn't count on Beth ever coming out and saying that the Nerevarine went to Akavir and became a missionary for Talos.
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Dragonz Dancer
 
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Post » Mon May 07, 2012 6:38 pm

The Akaviri were in Tamriel long before Talos was even born, let alone stand became a god. What the Nerevarine did, or did not do or might have done or might not have done is entirely up to you. But I wouldn't count on Beth ever coming out and saying that the Nerevarine went to Akavir and became a missionary for Talos.

Well, I was basing it off of the fact that in Oblivion, people say that the Nerevarine went on an expidition to Akavir. While I'm not saying there is a large chance of him speaking of Talos (since he did meet him), there is that possibility. Also, seeing as most of the people in Tamriel worship the Divines, even those coming from Aldmeris. It is not unreasonable to say that they also worship at least some of the Divines.
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xx_Jess_xx
 
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