So, in the pocket guide to the Empire, it states the the leader of Orsinium was leading a movement to reject Malacath as the Orc's patron deity, claiming he was not truely Trinimac. Between then, and Skyrim, Orsinium was sacked and (possibly?) rebuilt. Orcs are one of my favorite races in the game, and, although I'm happy with the status quo, I got to thinking

Is Malacath bad for the Orcs?

On one hand, he keeps them strong, but it's a survival of the fittest type of strong. He seems happy to keep them as pariahs, nomadic, and living harsh, short, brutal lives. I'm curious if his influence had anything to do with the fact that Orsinium was never recognized as a province of the Empire.

My second question would be "What could the Orsimer do about it?" Assuming they wanted to change the way their lives worked, and actually build a properous civilization, would it be possible to renouce Malacath, or somehow "change" him back to Trinimac?

Way I see it, the only possible thing you could do to change the Orc's ways would be to best each and every one of them on your own, they'd probably do whatever you say.

Personally, I don't think Malacath is bad for the Orcs at all. They lead simple lives but are free to adventure when they come of age, and they seem content with that.

Malacath is a heavy influence on their culture, which is very brutal.
Though if it weren't for the hard life of the Orsimer they may not have survived the latest vandalising of Orsinium, judging by the low numbers of what's left. Though that probably is because Bethesda didn't want to make too many guys.

But, they will make their comeback and I would love to see them in full power again.

The Trinimac movement idea is interesting - although it did happen 200 years ago (as of Skyrim) and alot has changed in Tamriel since then - and also bearing in mind its only mention was in the Pocket guide. Still, maybe with the threat of the Thalmor, Orsinium is trying to civilize itself, and maybe they see worshipping Trinimac as a way of doing that? But we don't know if worshipping Trinimac does have any affect, as all other sources state he is Malacath - so the act of "changing" him is only as possible as how wacky the mind of Story Development at Beth can get. Still, I do think not worshipping Malacath would make the orcs more civilized - the question is does it make them better off?

Well, orcs don't live long much anyway - only to about 50. It's possible that a nomadic life is what keeps them alive - they need to be fit and healthy. Still, they are more at risk to disease and such, so it could go either way. Still, the whole "Code of Malacath" is very important to the orcs, and if the race did stop worshipping him, the first thing to go wrong, even if it wasn't due to him, would be seen as "Malacath's curse".

But, what if the Trinimac priesthood has already happened? What if the orc strongholds we see in Skyrim aren't just tribes who have been there for centuries, but rather Malacath worshippers on the run from Trinimac's Orsinum? We haven't heard much about it.

Malacath is central figure of orc way of life, they live by his code, survival of the fittest.He is so deep rooted with them, that I think it is impossible to orcs to reject him.Is he bad for orcs as whole?
Yes, he keeps them to live like savages, nomads and barbarians.
When would Malacath allow art? Culture? Discipline and strategy before simple berzerkering?

Marukhati-style exorcism of Malacath to undo the action of Boethiah's digestive tract?

This should be Skyrim's expansion. Or the next game.

I just got horrible, horrible mental images....

On the subject of the...devouring of Malacath...what exactly did Boethiah eat? Trinimac's power? Personality? Was it metaphorical, or literal?

Honestly, I can't really say if "civilizing" would be the best thing for the Orcs. Still, I imagine that many Orcs would like to have a safe nation of their own, to be accepted as equals in the Empire, and to be able to devote time to scholarly persuits, and art, and not have the whole tribal "survival of those with the best combination of brute physical strength and cunning" going. Already, we know that many Orcs go to the Imperial Legion, either to seek a glorious death, or in hope of getting enough status to attract mates.

I was gonna say. It should be possible, but it would have serious repercussions.

This back-to-Trinimac movment was only in motion when Orsinium was

A) existent.

B) attempting to integrate into the Imperial high-culture. Bit of a damper on the mood of the Emperor's private Tibedetha shindig when the Orcish envoy cops to being a Daedra worshiper.

Now that the Orcs are back scratching a hard-scrabble life in wooden forts, they've no desire or even need to dress up their religion .

Daedra are petty, jealous Olympian-style gods.

If the worship of Trinimac was taking off, you can bet that Malacath didn't like it (even though he is Trinimac) and was the one who put the idea into the Breton's and Redguard's heads to sack Orsinium in the first place.

From what it seems, though the Orcs didn't have a nation Orsinium grew to be somewhat of a city-state sort of deal growing from constant refuges.
Though if anything it would be much more likely that they live under the Empire somewhere, much like the Eastern Germanic Tribes lived under Rome, but that ended up in Rome being sacked twice.
Though many orcs have already said the only place they are truly accepted is in the Legion because they don't care what they are as long as they can kill scores of men, scores of Imperial enemies.

Nah, the Orcs do it to themselves by worshipping the Patron of Pariahs.

I don't recall reading anything about how Malacath feels about his origins. Maybe he'd like to be Trinimac again. Not likely to happen, though, since his sphere keeps bouncing his worshippers back into barbarism. (So, yeah, not barbarism exactly, but the flow of the sentence demanded that word.)

Actually, After the Warp in the West, Orsinium controlled most of the wrothgarian mountains, and the coastline of the Bjoulsae river. While officially a county of High Rock, the Empire directly collected taxes from Orsinium and recognized Gortwog as a king, and Orsinium included parts of both HIgh Rock and Hammerfell.

What if a similar thing to Jyggalag happens to Trinimac, where every so often he turns back into a noble knight? Perhaps one could seperate these aspects like the CoC seperated Jyggalag and Sheogorath?

And..now I want that to be an X-pac, even if a Daedric themed expension is getting a little cliche

I just had this vision of Malacath as Fight Club.

Boethiah is said to have assumed his shape (in some stories, he even eats Trinimac) so that he could convince a throng of Aldmer to listen to him, which led to their eventual Chimeri conversion.

Trinimac was consumed from within. His flesh is resurrected in Malak, and Boethia is the spirit, changed by illumination of Godhead. The hero, Trinimac, raised high and brooding over all his people, seems to have lost his mind, somewhere beneath the weight of omniscience.

Hmmm...maybe Malacath could go and eat Boethia right back. Or..some..strange..cosmic..merger..thing. Toss them both in the metaphysical blender, see what comes out.

http://anthitchcocksblog.files.wordpress.com/2010/03/madeyoulook.jpg?w=500

In LOS Malacath upon hearing Attrebus repeat the story remarks that mortals take things too literal

What defecated deity wouldn't?

Probably because they'd all be dead if their society focused on anything other than being tough. Were you to walk into an Orc Stronghold and say that, they would spit in your face, beat you with in an inch of your life, then toss you outside to plump up the game. They seem perfectly content with being barbarians. It also says nowhere that they can't expand and grow in The Code of Malacath, they simply don't have the numbers to do it, they wouldn't have numbers in the first place if it weren't for Malacath.