Blending of the Lore

Post » Tue May 08, 2012 8:31 am

The Nords are hella-fascinated by Shouts now, I imagine it was even more intense back then. The society also seems to favor strongman type leadership even in today’s Skyrim. Thus I don’t think Nords followed him meekly, I think they saw everything they ever wanted in a leader so they would have willingly and cheerfully followed him into Oblivion if that was his destination.

"Most of the Nords I met seemed amused by this 'Fatherland' nonsense ~ the war with the 'Aldmeri Dominion' was the furthest thing in their minds" - YR.

Yes, they were, and are, very warlike. But they were not the nationalists the author of the Pocket Guide described.

Edit: Remember the Thirsk? Think that.
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Miragel Ginza
 
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Post » Tue May 08, 2012 7:43 am

"Most of the Nords I met seemed amused by this 'Fatherland' nonsense ~ the war with the 'Aldmeri Dominion' was the furthest thing in their minds" - YR.

Yes, they were, and are, very warlike. But they were not the nationalists the author of the Pocket Guide described.

Edit: Remember the Thirsk? Think that.

Making no reference to the pocket guide here, but just Nords as a society in general.

Some badass Nord comes around and the guy is an awesome warrior and he can Shout. Sure he spins some tale about being from Atmora, but hey its Skyrim where drunk warriors spin tales all the time so you either believe him and he is mythical or you just look at him as a typical Nord and accept him as one of your own. WIN! WIN! The guy is also a great tactician and is virtually coronated by the Grey Beards. Did I mention that the guy can SHOUT??? And has a cool nick name Talos?
In conclusion; it doesn’t matter if the Nords wanted war with elves or if they were nationalistic. They would follow that guy anywhere regardless.

Edit: Skyrim was one of the Founding members but not the only member. Nords made up the tipitop leadership and much of the manpower, the ideology and mediocre leadership was provided by another province(s).
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Rebecca Clare Smith
 
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Post » Tue May 08, 2012 4:14 am

I dislike the fact that TES made the Nords sort of abandon the old Gods and heroes and adapt to the Imperial Gods like Akatosh and the rest of the tosh (pun intended). :biggrin: Talos is now Tiber Septim, I mean what right do these damn Imperials have to rename him? And the Empire should belong to the Nords, not the Imperials since the Nords founded it!

Just going back to your OP - The empire the Nords 'founded' was not the same empire as that of the Cyrodiils. There are four Cyrodiilic empires; the Alessian Empire, the Reman Empire, the Empire of the Septims (the one Talos founded, who took the name Tiber when he was crowned Emperor by Zurin Arctus) and now the Mede Empire.

The Alessian Empire conquered Skyrim at one point in the mid-1E. I would imagine that would be when the Alessian/Imperial pantheon was brought in.

There is a timeline over at TIL, reading it from start to end is a great way to get a basic grip on the history of Tamriel:
http://www.imperial-library.info/content/tamriel-timeline
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Tania Bunic
 
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Post » Tue May 08, 2012 2:17 am

These things happen after a country has been occupied for hundreds of years.

Their culture has been assimilated.
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Samantha Wood
 
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Post » Tue May 08, 2012 3:11 am

The Alessians didn't conquer Skyrim. Skyrim/Nords under Morihaus allied with the rebelling slaves, and jointly created the First Empire.

And indeed, the Nords using Imperial names really isn't that strange. It's just a result of centuries of cross-cultural pollination and assimilation.
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Del Arte
 
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Post » Tue May 08, 2012 5:48 am

Edit: Skyrim was one of the Founding members but not the only member. Nords made up the tipitop leadership and much of the manpower, the ideology and mediocre leadership was provided by another province(s).

Third Empire? No no no. Hjalti-anon-Tiber was most likely a Breton, he came from Alcaire, and in stories of Tiber Septim, there's always this troublemaking Breton that seems to be popping up (e.g. At Sancre Tor, a sorcerous Breton betrayed the citadel to Tiber; It was a nightblade from High-Rock that conveniently offed Cuhlecain).

Also while many Nords are in the Legion, the same can be said of Orcs. Colovians comprise the majority of its ranks.
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Latino HeaT
 
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Post » Tue May 08, 2012 4:31 am

A lot has changed since the end of the Third Era. It's really not that surprising, considering the avatar of an Imperial god saved Tamriel.

Edit: One other thing: note that the cities that revere the Cyrodiilic Divines are either geographically close to Cyrodiil (Markarth and Riften) or have a long history of being politically close to Cyrodiil (Solitude). As for Kynareth, she still seems to retain much of the Nordic Kyne, including the whole "widow of Shor" thing.

Shor is interesting because even though the Nords in Skyrim believe in him (as he's part of Sovngarde, which they now know they go after they die), they don't worship him, instead opting for Talos.
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Marine x
 
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Post » Tue May 08, 2012 9:41 am

A lot has changed since the end of the Third Era. It's really not that surprising, considering the avatar of an Imperial god saved Tamriel.

Edit: One other thing: note that the cities that revere the Cyrodiilic Divines are either geographically close to Cyrodiil (Markarth and Riften) or have a long history of being politically close to Cyrodiil (Solitude). As for Kynareth, she still seems to retain much of the Nordic Kyne, including the whole "widow of Shor" thing.

Shor is interesting because even though the Nords in Skyrim believe in him (as he's part of Sovngarde, which they now know they go after they die), they don't worship him, instead opting for Talos.

Mara and Dibella are in the Nordic pantheon. One of Mara's priests calls her the "Handmaiden of Kyne." Riften is the least Imperialzed.
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Miss Hayley
 
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Post » Tue May 08, 2012 2:01 am

Well this has certainly sparked an interesting conversation. While we're at it, I would just like to add that I don't feel Talos, or Septim or Hjalti or whichever name you want to call him ever did anything worthy enough to become a god. I'd understand if Ysgramor was made a patron god of Nords but I have to opt with the Thalmor on this Talos matter. I suppose that's just as well since my character's a wood elf and only really cares about Y'ffre.
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Leonie Connor
 
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Post » Tue May 08, 2012 6:17 am

Well this has certainly sparked an interesting conversation. While we're at it, I would just like to add that I don't feel Talos, or Septim or Hjalti or whichever name you want to call him ever did anything worthy enough to become a god. I'd understand if Ysgramor was made a patron god of Nords but I have to opt with the Thalmor on this Talos matter. I suppose that's just as well since my character's a wood elf and only really cares about Y'ffre.

Tiber Septim had to force his way into being a god. Him being granted it from the Eight Divines is false, much like how the Tribunal claimed to have earned it by doing good deads, though they actually used the Heart.
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abi
 
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Post » Tue May 08, 2012 1:07 pm

Mara and Dibella are in the Nordic pantheon. One of Mara's priests calls her the "Handmaiden of Kyne." Riften is the least Imperialzed.
So what's your saying is that only city that has the Imperial pantheon is Solitude. That makes even more sense. I'm not counting Whiterun because it seems that even most Nords consider Kyne and Kynareth to be more or less the same (like that Bosmer Knight of the Nine who worshiped Auri-El yet considered him to be the same being as Akatosh).
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Tamara Primo
 
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Post » Mon May 07, 2012 11:13 pm

So what's your saying is that only city that has the Imperial pantheon is Solitude. That makes even more sense. I'm not counting Whiterun because it seems that even most Nords consider Kyne and Kynareth to be more or less the same (like that Bosmer Knight of the Nine who worshiped Auri-El yet considered him to be the same being as Akatosh).

Even the priestess of Arkay in Windhelm calls him the son of Akatosh.

But yes, the most popular gods already had a obvious presence in the Nordic pantheon.
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Anne marie
 
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Post » Mon May 07, 2012 11:44 pm

Well this has certainly sparked an interesting conversation. While we're at it, I would just like to add that I don't feel Talos, or Septim or Hjalti or whichever name you want to call him ever did anything worthy enough to become a god. I'd understand if Ysgramor was made a patron god of Nords but I have to opt with the Thalmor on this Talos matter. I suppose that's just as well since my character's a wood elf and only really cares about Y'ffre.
If you mean that establishing the Empire isn't enough, you're absolutely right. But that's not what Talos did to become a god.
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Haley Cooper
 
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Post » Tue May 08, 2012 4:41 am

The Alessians didn't conquer Skyrim. Skyrim/Nords under Morihaus allied with the rebelling slaves, and jointly created the First Empire.

Good catch. It would've been at that point though when the Alessian pantheon started to seep into Skyrim. I recall Wulfharth tried to reinstate the traditional Nordic gods when he was elected king after the Battle of Glenumbria Moors; then driving the Imperial priests out of Skyrim.
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Lauren Graves
 
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Post » Tue May 08, 2012 7:22 am

The Alessian Empire and the First Empire were two different nations. The former was a petty kingdom that did not really become (politically) important until the emergence of the Alessian Order. The latter was an Empire that controlled High Rock, parts of Cyrodiil, Skyrim, and Morrowind.

Though the Alessian Order and First Empire associated with each other, with High King Borgas being a devout member of the Alessian Order, they were not the same Empire. The Alessians were defeated, but not destroyed, by Hoag Merkiller and the Direnni of High Rock ( By this point, the First Empire had fallen.) Hoag died in this battle, and was succeed by Wulfharth, who wiped out the priests of the Alessian Order from Skyrim. Alessian Order is not the Nine Divines. The Alessian Order was monotheist, with the Eight merely being saints. And Wulfharth purged them from Skyrim.

Now because of this, Cyrodiil and Skyrim despise each other for about 700 years. Then the Alessian Empire began to claim territories like High Rock, and Skyrim and Cyrodiil get along better due to good diplomacy. Skyrim does not join the Alessian Empire. They just "okay" with each other.

Following this, Skyrim and Cyrodiil have little contact until the (Tsaesci) Akaviri invasion.

Edit
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quinnnn
 
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Post » Tue May 08, 2012 5:45 am

SC, you stated everything I was trying to say in this thread but far more eloquently put, haha. Thank you.

Just to clarify, when I was talking about the Alessian pantheon, I was referring to the Eight Divines. The Maruhkati/Alessian Order and their monotheistic faith followed more than 100 years after that was originally conceived/designed by Alessia. I was supposing that it could've been as early as that (1E 243) when the Imperial (probably a better word for it than Alessian) pantheon started to take root in Skyrim.
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Evaa
 
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Post » Mon May 07, 2012 10:29 pm

snip
My bad for using Alessians. I didn't mean anything Alessian Order-related but rather the armies of slaves Alessia herself commanded.

I don't agree with the Alessian Empire not being the First Empire though. To my, admittedly amateurish, knowledge one is a synonym of the other.
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Mr. Allen
 
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