Adding a Mod, Savegame Crashes : III

» Tue May 08, 2012 12:37 pm

So, like many others, I find a mod I like and I add it to my game. Sometimes, especially with saves that have a lot of mods running, the save will crash when I try to load it with a new mod added. However, I can start a new game and the same mod setup will work fine. So, I would think that it is a conflict with the save file rather than with another mod. Do we know why this phenomenon happens?

I know that if I remove a mod from my list, I can clean my save with wrye mash.

Is there a way to go the other direction to clean a save or something so that it accepts a new mod being added?

For example, where I am now, I've added a gorgeous .esp retexture of molag mar. My save, which is only a few days old, wont load with it. Starting a new game will work just fine.

I keep starting new games when I find a new mod. My character that defeated dagoth ur, tribunal, and bloodmoon is collecting dust because I've grown attached to all the mods I've discovered since saving that game a year ago.

I'm under the impression that a list of the mods I use would be extraneous, as this seems to happen with a save that's got its roots in deep and is basically saying, "Hey, enough mods already." Starting a new game seems to be the only fix I know of to continue to improve my mod lineup.

I must be missing something. Has anyone solved this issue yet?

thanks!

» Tue May 08, 2012 1:23 pm

Huh. Usually I don't have problems altering my mod lineup mid-game if I clean my save before I load it. Can you post up your modlist and anything that's in your warnings, just in case it might be rooted there?

» Tue May 08, 2012 8:17 am

I'm not sure how to export my modlist, but I use over 200 mods. This didn't start happening until my mod count got pretty high... the first 100 or so mods were added to an existing game without any problems. Starting a new game and having it work made me think it was something to do with a conflict with the save as opposed to a conflict with other mods - or perhaps the save has existing information relating to molag mar, since I just visited it, and my computer couldn't handle processing the conflict and crashed. Am I correct in saying that my save file will save data on molag mar if I visit it? I was hoping that maybe if I could remove the molag mar references from the save, or update the save to reference the new mod, it might work... I don't know what I'm talking about, I'm grasping.

Next time I have my PC booted up, I can try to get the warnings, but I use "yes to all" so its probably a long list. Not sure how to look at a list of warnings, but I can probably figure it out. Would it help to compare a list of warnings on the save with and without the new mod added?

» Tue May 08, 2012 5:21 pm

Yea you need to clean a few mods, the reason the game is crashing is because of GMSTs, might want to clean up the mods with testool or something then clean your saves with MCP or wyre mash.

» Tue May 08, 2012 5:26 am

I'm not sure how to export my modlist, but I use over 200 mods.

Hm, one thing to consider though is that, as far as I know, there is a limit to how many mods you can load your game with. I think it's about 250 mods.

» Tue May 08, 2012 8:03 am

254, but anything over 200 can cause stability issues even if the mods themselves are perfectly clean. I'd look into combining some of your mods, SK.

» Tue May 08, 2012 4:48 pm

254, but anything over 200 can cause stability issues even if the mods themselves are perfectly clean. I'd look into combining some of your mods, SK.

I'm running 231 myself, not counting 8 that are MGE-used. I can attest to that. Also, since you've brought it up, would you have any advice for those of us looking to combine mods and reduce the numbers? Which types of mods are safe to combine, things like that? I know face and hair mods that are non-replacers are OK to combine, but other than that...

» Tue May 08, 2012 3:39 am

Also, try loading a game saved in a small interior cell, then attempt to load the save you're having trouble with from there, without closing MW or restarting the game completely. I have no idea why, but sometimes saving in small interiors cells with little or no modifications will result in more stable saves. Also, loading one save and then loading another from within the game will sometimes allow you to get past the glitch.

There is always two schools of thought concerning savegame stability and CTDs, I go with whatever behavior I can change that does no harm. I avoid relying on quicksaves, or autosaves for my primary game, though using either on a regular basis seems to cut down on CTDs.

EDIT: typos and additional info.

For merging, it's best to merge completely unrelated mods, like a mod that adds a windmill to Pelagiad and another that adds a lighthouse to Ebonheart. They shouldn't conflict, because they do not affect the same cell. Also, if you are running several mods by the same author, they probably won't cause conflicts when merged and if the author is still active, he or she should be able to confirm this for you. In any case, always back up your mods, merge just a couple at a time, and give a unique name to the merged mod. That way, if it breaks something, you can always revert.

» Tue May 08, 2012 9:45 am

I combined about 15-20 city expansion mods and redated it to load first. Seyda Neen expanded ended up underwater as a result. It was a tedious process, because something kept causing TESCS to crash when I tried to combine them... finally I realized that one of the mods required COM, so that fixed it.

I tried to combine the three multimark mods, but that just resulted in it not working at all.

So, I'm trying to combine mods that have a similar function, to start. I wonder what would happen if I combined the new molag mar retextured mod into my combined city expansions. But, combining mods just to try out a new one is... well I don't have to spell t out. Hmmmm...

The save has been cleaned with wrye mash. But, as far as I know, it was cleaned without acknowledging the new mod since I haven't been able to resave the game with that mod installed. Sadly, MCP is not compatible with the 4gb patch that I used [and I have no idea if it even works]. So, I basically have never had a chance to use MCP - not until I figure out how to remove the 4gb patch, reinstall (AHAHAHA!!), or they put out a patch for the code patch to make it compatible.

As for mod count, I manage my mods with Wrye Mash (it didnt take long before using the launcher for mod management became a pain). Wrye Mash won't let me exceed the mod limit, so that's not the problem.

I've read a little bit about GMST's... are we talking about mods that may have been created before the release of tribunal/ bloodmoon? I didn't know that GMST was a problem if you install morrowind, tribunal, and bloodmoon in the correct order. But then again, I don't really understand the concept of a GMST or how to clean them out of a mod. Are we talking about mods that don't depend on all three that need to have their masters updated?

» Tue May 08, 2012 1:24 pm

GMST are game settings. If they are part of a mod, then the creator should have explicitly stated that they changed them in some way. If a GMST hasnt been changed and is part of a mod, it can override certain things and cause problems. Enchanted editor would be the best thing for this as if you know there shouldnt be any GMSTs in a mod you can just click the category and delete them all.

» Tue May 08, 2012 4:04 am

The save has been cleaned with wrye mash. But, as far as I know, it was cleaned without acknowledging the new mod since I haven't been able to resave the game with that mod installed. Sadly, MCP is not compatible with the 4gb patch that I used [and I have no idea if it even works]. So, I basically have never had a chance to use MCP - not until I figure out how to remove the 4gb patch, reinstall (AHAHAHA!!), or they put out a patch for the code patch to make it compatible.

There should be a file called Morrowind.exe.Backup in the main Morrowind folder. If there is, move morrowind.exe to another folder or call it something like morrowind.bak and rename the Morrowind.exe.Backup to just Morrowind.exe and try installing MCP. If it goes okay, reapply the 4g patch, but do not touch the Morrowind.Original.exe file.

» Tue May 08, 2012 2:30 am

Like I said, you should not be merging similar mods. You should be merging dissimilar mods.

» Tue May 08, 2012 6:02 am

Sadly, MCP is not compatible with the 4gb patch that I used [and I have no idea if it even works]. So, I basically have never had a chance to use MCP - not until I figure out how to remove the 4gb patch, reinstall (AHAHAHA!!), or they put out a patch for the code patch to make it compatible.

My first thought was a local reference conflict, but I dismissed that rather quickly. Addressing this conflict was one of the most important achievements of the Morrowind Code Patch, and these days who, particularly someone active in the forum like you, would not be using MCP? It is a conflict that arises when a new mod is inserted into the load order that adds references to a cell that is altered by a previous mod that now loads after it. The saved game cannot locate the local reference it had before and a crash is a typical 'solution' to the problem. You might know if the new mod is capable of such a conflict and if the other conditions exist. The warnings could confirm my suspicions. It has been many years since I became convinced that most of the crashes people attributed to corrupted saved games when running Traveling Merchants were actually local reference conflicts generated by adding new mods.

If it is not possible for you to use the Morrowind Code Patch, you might get some satisfaction from Wrye Mash. The latter can be used to re-number the references in new mod so they will not likely replace those of an existing mod. If you know what existing mod is on the receiving end of the conflict, you could try cleaning your saved game of its references, but that may not be desirable. Of course all of this is dependent on the assumption that my diagnosis is correct.

If you want to receive more than speculations about the source of the problem you really should post your load order and warnings.

» Tue May 08, 2012 11:10 am

Instead of using the CS, give http://planetelderscrolls.gamespy.com/View.php?view=Utilities.Detail&id=78 a try for merging mods. I just downloaded it, and after a couple minutes of looking at it and checking the readme, I was able to knock my mod count from 231 down to 155 with minimal problems. Very handy utility!

» Tue May 08, 2012 1:36 am

If you want to receive more than speculations about the source of the problem you really should post your load order and warnings.

I will try to figure out how to do that next time I'm at my PC if I can't fix it with the suggestions given.

these days who, particularly someone active in the forum like you, would not be using MCP?

I was unaware of MCP or its incompatibility when I tried to use the 4gb patch. I would be using MCP if it worked. Pretty sure I explained that. I think someone gave me a possible solution to removing the 4gb patch... if that works, I'll be in business with MCP. I hope - MCP's error code implied that I hadn't installed the bloodmoon patch (which I most certainly have), so mostly I'd discarded it as defective until I realized today that it might be the 4gb patch.

Thank you everyone for your help!! Love you all! I have some trees to bark up next time I'm on my Windows Box.

» Tue May 08, 2012 12:54 pm

To copy your load order: Select and highlight your save in Wrye Mash. Right click on the File header in the right column. Select Copy List. Paste to your location of choice.

Also, when it comes to merging mods or other situations where you want find conflicts, http://planetelderscrolls.gamespy.com/View.php?view=Utilities.Detail&id=24 is very useful to test one mod against a list of mods, or a list of mods against each other.

» Tue May 08, 2012 1:27 pm

My warnings list is far too long to post here, unfortunately. The list is freaking HUGE. I don't know what it means. :/

Current Mod Load: Masters for Sydderia0000.ess:

Spoiler

001 Morrowind.esm
002 Tribunal.esm
003 Bloodmoon.esm
004 Texture Fix 2.0.esm
005 abotWaterLife.esm
006 Bloodmoon Landscape Overhaul 1.0.esm
007 Beauty_Pack.esm
008 Better Heads.esm
009 Better Heads Tribunal addon.esm
010 Better Heads Bloodmoon addon.esm
011 MW_Children_1_0.esm
012 Assassins Armory.esm
013 The Wilderness Mod 2.0 T & B.esm
014 Book Rotate.esm
015 GDR_MasterFile.esm
016 Texture Fix - Bloodmoon 1.1.esm
017 Aduls_Master_Mod.esm
018 MCA.esm
019 TR_Data.esm
020 TR_Map1.esm
021 TR_Map2.esm
022 Fields of Kummu Expanded with Pilgrims.esp
023 KN Complete Official Plugins.ESP
024 Stanegau Isle.esp
025 _Death's Doorstep V3x.esp
026 DagonFel_Well.esp
027 No CharGen MessageBoxes.esp
028 Animal Behaviour.esp
029 dxm_metallic_signs.esp
030 horatoritems.esp
031 Sound Enhancements.esp
032 Infernal SummoningV1.1.esp
033 Improved Trap Settings (Tribunal).esp
034 Stealth Enhancements-LD 1.5b (Tribunal).esp
035 Improved Trap Settings.esp
036 Improved Lockpicking.esp
037 Thief Experience Overhaul 1.3b (Tribunal) (Combined).esp
038 TravelingMerchants-1.2_BETA.esp
039 AV_female_armor.esp
040 Vampire Birthsigns.esp
041 Illuminated Order v1.0.esp
042 Illuminated Order v1.0 - Bloodmoon Compatibility Extras.esp
043 AV_fem_armor_Trib.esp
044 AV_fem_shirts.esp
045 MultiMark.esp
046 MultiMark_TribunalPlugin.esp
047 MultiMark_BloodmoonPlugin.esp
048 Wilderness Sounds T & B.esp
049 Ind_balloons.esp
050 TLM - Light Sources (Lanterns).esp
051 TLM - Ambient Light + Fog Update.esp
052 Telos Rin Graveyard.esp
053 TLM - NPC Light Sources.esp
054 Firemoth Expanded 1.5.esp
055 TLM - Light Sources (Clearer Lighting).esp
056 JCS - The Dwemeri Secret.esp
057 Weapons of Tamriel v1.2.esp
058 Dracus's Durzog Armor Tribumal V1.1.esp
059 KN Complete Domina Ice.ESP
060 ship_to_mournhold.esp
061 Suran_Underworld_2.5.esp
062 PSsorticon.esp
063 Unique Banners and Signs.esp
064 ShieldPlacer_MWTribBM.esp
065 Better Bodies.esp
066 The regulars - Sitting NPC's v2.02.esp
067 KN Complete Cities Expanded 1.7.ESP
068 Sixth House.esp
069 Silt_Striders_Are_In_Vvardenfell.esp
070 Assassins Armory - Arrows.esp
071 Armingers_at_Ghostgate.esp
072 moons_soulgems.esp
073 Morrowinter Tribunal.esp
074 Windows Glow.esp
075 Uvirith Inside.esp
076 Playable Dawn and Equipment.esp
077 Tombs Expanded.esp
078 Assassins Armory - Bolt Rifles.esp
079 Tombs Expanded - The Undead Addon.esp
080 Vampire Realism II.esp (Version 2.2)
081 Vampire Realism II - TB Add-On.esp
082 Vampire Realism II - BM Add-On.esp
083 Daedric Gold and Weapon Collection.esp
084 Mournhold Downtown.esp
085 Scripted_Spells.esp
086 Barabus' fireplaces 2.esp
087 Blood and Gore.esp
088 TweakForAWB.esp
089 mca_playable_hnh.esp
090 NightElvesForBBWithClothing.esp
091 SG_ hazaeki_race-1_2.esp
092 Ice's BM Ice & NordicMail.esp
093 KN Complete Book Jackets Rotate.ESP
094 Prosey female pants replace.esp
095 Persuasion Response Expansion.esp
096 Qarls_Hot_Tattooed_Girls.esp
097 Syc_AtHomeAlchemy.esp (Version 1.0)
098 Mournhold, The Great Bazaar.esp
099 MG_Revisited_Part2_c.esp
100 Clean Better Daedric.esp
101 Elders of Vvardenfell.esp
102 Elders 0 Count NPC add-on (Trib & BM).esp
103 Drowcity Denizens.esp
104 abotTakeMyPlace.esp
105 RD_wands.esp
106 sixy Ebony Armor.esp
107 Thirsk Expanded Family.esp
108 abotWaterLifeTRaddon.esp
109 abotWhereAreAllBirdsGoing.esp
110 k_weather (louder sounds).esp
111 k_in_tent.esp
112 Soti_BetterDreamers.esp
113 BB_Clothiers_of_Vvardenfell_v1.1.esp
114 CM_Partners_3.0.esp
115 CM_Partners_3.0_Child_Upgrade.esp
116 CM_Partners_3.0_Guards_Upgrade.esp
117 Wanderers of Solstheim.esp
118 Louis_FF7 JENOVA's Children.esp (Version 0.7)
119 OR_DaeRaceBETA.esp
120 BE_dh_furn_stores .esp (Version 2.01)
121 Romance_Follow_v10EV.esp
122 Bisixual_v10EV.esp
123 Prostitution_v12EV.esp
124 Map - Deluxe - NoQuest.esp
125 Romance_v37EV.esp
126 Health Indicators.esp
127 Better Clothes_v1.1_nac.esp
128 AA_DwemerFlying Fortress.esp
129 Westly Presents-Golden Saint.esp
130 magicka regeneration(v.1.1).esp
131 KS_Ren's_Oblivion_Hair_for_Morrowind_1.0.esp
132 Thirsk_HotSpring_Clean_1.2.esp
133 New Keys.esp
134 Ravenloft_v0502d.esp
135 Ownership Indicator.esp
136 Clean Clean ModTown2006.esp
137 Elders MCA Add-on v2.0.esp
138 Museum of Artifacts Improved Expanded.esp
139 ExpandedBirthsigns4Purists.esp
140 Hg's Vampire Vixens replacer.esp
141 Gothic Attire Complete v1-1.esp
142 BetterGlasses - Goblets.esp
143 BetterGlasses - Bottles.esp
144 Unique_creeper_richer.esp
145 Neo's Unique Creatures.esp
146 BetterGlasses - Misc.esp
147 DN-GDRv1.esp
148 Better Creature (rev5_Kwama).esp
149 Better Creature (rev6_ClanFear).esp
150 Better Creature (rev9_ALLatronach).esp
151 Westly's Master Headpack X.esp
152 Aduls_Clocks_and_Watches.esp
153 Vampire Weakness Weather Dependant v1.8.1.esp
154 The Neverhalls.esp
155 TGTunnels_v2_5.esp
156 People to streets of Vivec 0.2.esp
157 Wilderness Mod Rectifier.esp
158 Vampiric Visage v1.0.esp
159 BetterClothesForTB.esp
160 Fliggerty's Fleeing Fetchers.esp
161 Expansion to Gladiator.esp
162 Unique Items - Monster Specific.esp
163 Unique Items.esp
164 Chalk30-Base.esp
165 Graphic Herbalism.esp
166 Texture Fix -TR -1.0.esp
167 sm_loth.esp
168 ExcellentMagicSounds.esp
169 AEV_TCA.esp
170 TR_CensusAndExciseTravel.esp
171 Morrowind Code Patch Showcase.esp (Version 0.5)
172 TownSounds.esp
173 abotSiltStriders.esp
174 abotSiltStridersTR.esp
175 abotGondoliers.esp
176 abotBoats.esp
177 LeftGloves_Addon_v2.esp
178 Clean NEW_aqs_biomech.esp
179 almalexia armor.esp
180 Jac_lightning_strike.esp
181 Clean Chargen_Revamped_v2_3.esp
182 Ravenloft Enhanced.ESP
183 MDM Soul Ore Harvesting.ESP
184 Pelagiad_UNFINISHED.esp
185 Better Skulls.ESP
186 Animated Morrowind 1.0.esp
187 Building Up Uvirith's Legacy1.1.ESP
188 Ashlander Travel.esp
189 Vurt's Ashlands Overhaul.esp
190 MCA - Guards Patch.ESP
191 MCA - Divine Domina Addon.ESP
192 MCA - TR Addon.ESP
193 MCA - COV Addon.esp
194 MDP Compilation.ESP
195 MCA - Vampire Realism Patch.esp
196 Unique Fort Darius.esp
197 Psy_VivecGodReplacer_Tribunal.esp
198 Bloodmoon_Creatures.esp
199 Animated_Morrowind - Expanded.esp
200 MCA - People of Morrowind.ESP
201 Vurt's Grazelands Unique Trees.ESP
202 Moon's Dawn.ESP
203 Vurt's BC Tree Replacer II.ESP
204 Animated Morrowind II.esp
205 PK vamp hideout bright.esp
206 KRS_TL_DarkTelvanni.esp
207 TAE - apparatus retexture.esp
208 TAE - ingredient trader.esp
209 Unique Jewelry and Accessories.esp
210 TAE - essence potions.esp
211 TAE - TR essences and effects.esp
212 Tealpanda's Alchemy Essentials.esp
213 Stilt City.ESP
214 Deus Ex Machina - A Steampunkyish Mod.ESP
215 Moon Sugar Plantation.esp
216 ring_teleport v3_Tealpanda.esp
217 Better_Vampires.esp
218 master_list.esp
219 alternate_mages.ESP
220 keening - backup feb20.esp
221 KN_recall.ESP
222 keening - COM.ESP
223 keening - townsounds.ESP
224 Blood and Gore BM add-on.esp
225 Better Creature (rev1_Daedroth).esp
226 Blood and Gore Wilderness add-on.esp
227 Blood and Gore Morrowind-Tribunal add-on.esp
228 Blood and Gore Fire damage.esp

Of course, the new mod isn't onj the list because I can't load the save if I add it.

» Tue May 08, 2012 4:13 am

There should be a file called Morrowind.exe.Backup in the main Morrowind folder. If there is, move morrowind.exe to another folder or call it something like morrowind.bak and rename the Morrowind.exe.Backup to just Morrowind.exe and try installing MCP. If it goes okay, reapply the 4g patch, but do not touch the Morrowind.Original.exe file.

I found a Morrowind,exe,Backup and changed it to Morrowind.exe, moving the original out of the folder. MCP still gives me the following message:
anolyzing Morrowind.exe...
Backing up Morrowind.exe to Morrowind.Original.exe
There is no compatible patch for your version of Morrowind.exe. Make sure your Morrowind is patched with the last Bloodmoon patch (v.1.6.0.1820). MCP is not compatible with the Impulse download version due to the DRM wrapper around the game program. If you should have a compatible version, please check you have not installed other patches such as Exe Optimizer, 4GB patch or no-CD patches. Check the readme for more details.
Patch failed to apply.

Of course, my Morrowind is v.1.6.0.1820.

» Tue May 08, 2012 1:02 pm

Well, with all of your help, I appear to have the solution. The mod was adding was dependent on Morrowind alone. I opened it up in TESCS along with tribunal and bloodmoon, and resaved it. That changed the date, and I imagine, the load order. It also made the mod dependent on Morrowind, Tribunal, and Bloodmoon, which as I understand it, probably fixed some GMST problems. Not sure if it was the load order, removal of GMSTs, or both that fixed it, but it is working. So, hopefully this thread will help people out with a variety of things in the future.

As for the Code Patch... maybe I can do a second Morrowind installation with expansions, patched, and just copy over the Morrowind.exe. I keep a vanilla morrowind installation... I'll toss the expansions and patches in there and steal its heart.

» Tue May 08, 2012 12:58 am

Grabbed the morrowind.exe from my vanilla installation and the MCP worked like a charm. Sweet - I've solved two problems that have been dogging me for a while. Thanks, y'all!

» Tue May 08, 2012 1:56 pm

It may very well have been redating the mod that solved the problem SK. Loading a mod last (most recent date) will eliminate any conflict it may have been having with another mod that loaded after it preventing your game from loading. Unfortunately, it also may mean that an earlier mod has lost some functionality, but if you never notice any problems, then it won't be missed.

Congrats on fixing your issues. FWIW, it is the act of *changing* load order which usually causes problems with savegames. When adding a new mod to an existing game, loading it last is the only way to prevent changing the load order of any other rmod in your list. Unfortunately, this practice can lead to other problems.

» Tue May 08, 2012 2:45 pm

I'd really recommend running your modlist through http://www.gamesas.com/topic/1167004-relz-mlox-a-tool-for-anolyzing-and-sorting-your-load-order/, there're a few issues it highlighted.

Secondly, this general Wrye Mash advice could be of use to you:

Firstly, initial cleaning of your installed mods:
(1) On the Mods tab all mods should have a green checkbox.
(2) If any mods have a yellow checkbox, select them and then look for the
Save button in the bottom right. Click that and the mod file will be
updated and the error removed. The error just means that the mod was
created with an earlier version of Morrowind to the one you're using.
Saving in Mash will update this version info.
(3) If you have any mods with red checkboxes then you do not have a ESM
file needed by that mod loaded. Check the mod's readme.

Secondly, cleaning your savegames:
(4) Onto the Saves tab, select the savegame you want to fix.
(5) When the savegame is selected the list in the bottom right will be
populated with the mods currently associated with the savegame.
(6) Right click the column headers ("File" and "Num") and choose Sync to
Load List (this will change the mods associated with the savegame to
match those currently selected on the Mods tab).
(7) Click Save
(8) Right click the savegame and choose Repair All.
(8a) Optionally, right click the savegame and choose Remove > Debris Cells.
(9) The checkbox for the save should now be purple.

There're some good archived threads on merging mods on http://www.mwmythicmods.com/Archives/mods.htm (although these were all written before SmartMerger was released):
Merging a large number of mods succesfuly
Merging Mods with the Construction Set
Merging Mods, I'm reaching my limit

Fourthly, the idea that mods with evil GMSTs cause crashes is wrong. Cleaning mods with http://abot-morrowind.tk/index.php?option=content&Itemid=10&task=viewpost&id=48&-How-to-properly-use-TESTool or http://www.gamesas.com/topic/934107-relz-tes3cmd-a-small-tool-for-modifying-tes3-plugins/ (the latter is a command line tool) is a good idea though.

» Tue May 08, 2012 5:05 am

In any case, don't change a modlist that is currently working. When you're finished with your current game, then you can change it, or you can start over by installing to another folder (dual install). Running a 200+ mod list through mlox and changing it up mid-stream is begging for trouble.

» Tue May 08, 2012 4:33 pm

Is there a way to go the other direction to clean a save or something so that it accepts a new mod being added?

(6) Right click the column headers ("File" and "Num") and choose Sync to
Load List (this will change the mods associated with the savegame to
match those currently selected on the Mods tab).
(7) Click Save

I have Wrye Mash. I did not know that it could do that, but I was hoping it could. This is exactly the fix I was looking for. It fixed EVERYTHING.

All of my character saves have been quickly updated to my current mod load list, and they are functioning. For the first time, my character that defeated Dagoth Ur, Tribunal, and Bloodmoon is having a chance to experience all the mods I've added since last fall. If you will excuse me, I believe I'm off to experience Neverhalls and Deus Ex for the first time....

THANK YOU!!!