So I'm going to make a new breton with the mage birthstone. But I may possibly go for an altmer atronach character.

I've played a little oblivion before and understand how the levelling system works, before I went for one major skill under each attribute. But I was always levelling to fast due to alteration and speechcraft being my major skills.

I want to be a strong character late on in the game, but I don't want to play the game constantly worrying about getting the right skills up at the right time. I don't really need to be 100 in everything, but I will want 100 in endurance as soon as possible, willpower (not for atronach) and intelligence.

Can anyone give me some advice on this?

I'm thinking I'll go for major skills that I definitely won't level until I choose to, so I'm thinking blade, blunt, h2h, light armor and heavy armor, as I won't accidentally level any of those up.

Well, assuming not touching Heavy Armor, you'll have to train up Block and Armorer to get advances of Endurance. You should have no trouble advancing Intelligence if you set Alchemy as a minor skill and use it (it advances quickly.)

That's not set in stone, I just want major skills that won't be accidentally levelled and aren't too difficult to level.

Also alteration spells can be continually cast for willpower training, same with resto and conjuration iirc.

Understood. I was just pointing out that you'd plan to use/train those other skills (the minors) to raise the attributes.

You should go for Atronach... its really fun, and adds a nice challenge to the game

Any more advice?

Still undecided between breton mage and altmer atronach, +150 magicka is a lot, but magic regen and 50% magic resistance is too.

like i mention in my other post in other forum, Paradox in character Build, if you want to play a mage, your major must be non-magic at all, if you want to play a warrior, all your majors are magic

That is the only way can get +5 in desired attribute, or else you will level up with no +5 attribute

Only use your major skill to level up

Actually, while the minors-as-majors strategy is useful for a warrior type, it's not a very good way to start a mage, and it isn't necessary. Mages become incredibly powerful at higher levels. And it's very useful as a starting mage to get those free spells that come with the skills as majors.

The only magic skill that should probably be made a minor is Alchemy, because it advances very quickly, and because using it is a good way to build up Intelligence.

But the OP said he want 100 in everything, i assume he want them ASAP. The only way is to make magic as minor, then spam cheap spells as much as possible. He can't do it if magic is major.

Minor Detect Life, Protection, Starlight, Bound Dagger are spam able and easy to level up. Just spam those in minor can get +5 in Willpower, Intelligent and Personality. Alchemy also easiest way to get +5 Intelligent as minor

Using melee combat as minor too, can get +5 Strength and Endurance.

So major skills must be : Blade/Blunt/Hand to Hand, Block, Speech Craft, Mercantile, Security, Marksman, Light Armor

The rest are minors. You see Security and Marksman there but no worry, exploit Sneak training in the guild (sneaking behind sleeping mage) you get +5 Agility. Acrobatic and Athletic for +5 Speed. Heavy Armor and Armorer for +5 Endurance, just wear heavy armor until get +100 endurance. Melee attack until get +100 strength

to get Strength and Endurance fast, pick Imperial, Warrior Birth Sign, Strength and Endurance for favorite Attribute, already get +15 on strength and Endurance making both 55 at start

magic as specialization making magic usage increasing level fast

Funny. What I thought I read was "I don't really need to be 100 in everything, but I will want 100 in endurance as soon as possible, willpower (not for atronach) and intelligence."




This is true, but it's not necessary to get a +5 advance in Personality, and advancing Willpower is pointless if one has the Atronach sign. That leaves only Intelligence, and, as I said, Alchemy as a minor takes care of that.


Not for a mage. Mages don't need those skills to be at Apprentice level (except eventually Mercantile.) Mages need to advance their Mage Skills, not their Attributes. Mages only need Intelligence and possibly Willpower. Mages need to reach high levels of Skill, because that allows them to cast more powerful spells, and to do it more cheaply. Attributes have very little to do with that.

Edit: To summarize, a true mage needs the Magic skills which will be used as Majors. The default Mage class works just fine for a mage, except that some people might prefer to have Alchemy as a Minor to control the growth of Intelligence.

lols i misread it

I do that sometimes, too.

I don't argue with your major/minor reversing idea for the other basic "archtypes," but Mages don't work the same way as other classes, because they are skill-driven instead of attribute-driven. Casting effectively depends on raising the skill as high as possible, and as quickly as possible.

You can always use enchantments or alchemy to boost Intelligence and Willpower if necessary.

But you have little control of level ups then, I can't just go and play the game incase I accidently level destruction too much (for example). I don't want to be the ultimate character, but I want to be strong with 100 in a few important skills/attributes. I also don't want to be so obsessed with not levelling a skill too much when playing, so what Niza is suggesting is preferable.

I understand your point, mages need high level mage skills asap, but at low levels it's not to bad. If you level badly later levels are very hard (I'll play at a high difficulty), so it's better to level efficiently, getting 5/5/5 endurance willpower intelligence for the first few level ups.

So for major skills I want skills that I won't accidentally level, so I think I'll go for:
-h2h (strength)
-heavy armor (endurance)
-light armor (speed)
-sneak (agility)

Now I'm not going to go for any intelligence or willpower majors, they will be levelling fast enough through normal use. I wouldn't mind having a personality one (not illusion) but mercantile levels without my control. So that leaves speechcraft, which I'm unsure about as it restricts my use of speechcraft, it also levels very fast. Then again I can use illusion for disposition boosts, so maybe it's not that useful.

Last three majors:
-block (endurance), so I can train endurance as fast as possible when I need to.
-blade/blunt (strength), completely controllable, but I may want to use blade later on so I'll probably go with blunt.
-speechcraft (personality)

What do people think?

I wouldn't worry about Speechcraft. I have chosen it as a USED major, and it still moves slowly. Do not play the mini-game with everyone you meet, just chat with most people. You can also avoid Speechcraft by using Illusion Charm spells.

Here's my two septims, after having run many different types of mages:

I agree with glargg.
Choose the skills you plan to use. Drop Alchemy to a minor, always.
I currently have an Altmer Apprentice in addition to a warrior.
The Altmer is a good example, as he was designed with severe limitations.
His strength and endurance are still the same as it was when he started. Endurance is like 35. Which means he is a one shot kill. Strength is whatever it is, 40 I think, which means he can only carry about 50 pounds beyond his traveling kit. He uses three majors only, the rest are unused.
Destruction
Illusion
Conjuration

Using only three majors, means he stops leveling at level 20. He has supreme magicka power, and even though he is a one-shot kill to most all other spellcasters, he has many ways of dealing with them.
All three of his majors are now at 100, heck, he doesn't even carry a weapon anymore... bound dagger for 50 seconds is enough. My mage heavily uses custom spells.
With an Endurance of 100, I think you should have no problem.
Choose the skills you plan to use, then use them. You need your magic skills to be viable killing skills from the get go.
I am doing a four majors melee warrior right now, where what you propose would be quite viable, as I am heavily restricting his magic usage, however, I believe you should choose magic skills as majors for a mage.
Good luck!

It is hard to play a warrior without magic at all, but it is easy to play a mage with some melee fighting skill, in Oblivion there is always about magic everywhere. either playing 100% mage or half mage half warrior, there is no 100% warrior.

As a warrior, still need enchantment items and weapons, either self enchanted or found items, either way still need Soul Trap magic (cast or enchantment).To recharge items in Mage Guild is insanely expensive (item charges = gold, which means if 1000 charges = 1000 gold). Another way is to find the rare Varla Stones, one use only per stone.

i just give up with 100% warrior build after i can't kill Will-of-the-Wisp just by strength alone (i don't have silver weapon at that time and i have no where to run, it is in the middle of nowhere and then wolf coming, i can kill the wolf but Will-of-the-Wisp catch me from behind)

If you build a mage with the major skills you're suggesting, you will have the opposite effect of what you're trying to achieve. First of all, if you have never-use majors, your character will rarely level up at all, which means you will not be putting any points into Attributes. Secondly, you are effectively level-capping your character, probably somewhere in the teens, with five "never-use" skills. Thirdly, Sneak is a terrible choice for a major, because it advances very quickly if you use it.


If you want to get +5 Endurance on level-up, you don't want Heavy Armor and Block as majors. You want them to be skills that you can train up without pushing you to the next level. As it stands now, you have only Armorer for that, and you can only use a trainer five times per level (without a mod.)

You can certainly build a character any way you like in this game, but what you're suggesting is not a mage. You're building a "jack of all trades," if you build upside like that.

One thing to note is that the rate of increase of any skill drops off as the skill rises, so anything you start low as a minor will level faster than it would as a major. There's a trade-off with armorer, because until you hit 50, you can't use it on enchanted gear, which limits how much you can repair loot as practice. A mage won't be repairing his own stuff much, as armor reduces spell effectiveness, and he'll use spells instead of weapons (or using bound weapons that never need repair).

I usually raise Heavy, Block and Armorer together by having a summoned skeleton bang on the best heavy suit I can collect. I get additional skills from conjuring him, and using my fists to provoke (and a bit of restoration at low levels). The armor can stay in my house, as it only gets using for the sparring sessions. That leaves room in inventory to carry around the alchemy apparatus, so I can reduce ingredients down to potions and poisons that weigh less, as I travel around.

I see what your saying, but I would train my major skills when the skills I use (in the intelligence and willpower skills) pass the 10 levels need for a 5 attribute level up, then I can just train my majors in endurance 10 times to level up (or if I accidentally level another major just fall back on armorer), that's the theory anyway until I get 100 endurance. When I have 100 endurance I will also have 100 willpower and intelligence, so I can focus on other attributes which I don't care as much about, like speed and agility.

Sneak is good because you can't accidentally use it, and when you do use it it levels very fast. But this means I can't use sneak when playing the game, at least not until higher levels when it levels slower.

True. It's not all equal, though. The Willpower-based skills (Alteration, Destruction, Restoration) are generally slower to advance than the Personality or Intelligence-based. Intelligence is ridiculously easy to raise, because of Alchemy.

One big problem for mages in an unmodded game is that you must have access to the Arcane University before you can enchant or create spells. That means that you need some effective magical fighting skills at low level. Novice-level Destruction and Restoration spells are adequate, but Novice Conjuration, Mysticism, and Illusion are not so much, and the Novice-level Shield spell (5%) is fairly worthless. If you don't have Apprentice level in Alteration, you can't even use the spell given to you in the Cheydinhal Recommendation quest, and you just might need it.

While my current warrior certainly dabbles in Restoration and Conjuration as Majors, I have certainly fielded several warriors who used absolutely no magic at all. Alchemy is your very best friend. For pure non-magic warriors, Alchemy reaches 100 before anything else does, and my characters do not grind out skills in any way; you can read this as my characters make the potions that they need, not extras or random potion-making. He breaks out the mortar and pestle when there is a need, not a want. As for enchanted items, there are many filled soul gems in loot. Maybe not filled the way I would like them, but they are filled nonetheless. I use these soul gems. When my character can afford it, he/she gets it recharged at a local Mages' Guild Hall. Most often however, I get the initial enchantment charge, then it runs out, and then I cannot recharge it for a long time because either I cannot afford it or have run out of soul gems. (It should be noted that even without a single charge left in an enchanted weapon, it still works against the undead.)(It also should be noted that I gimp my personal economy, by paying taxes on all homes, so that I'm not a gazillionaire like all of you guys are at level 10, which ties into why I cannot afford stuff.)



My mages, in the lower levels, are often found running like hell away from whatever it is. You will be weak at low levels. You will make up for this by being the most powerful person around in later levels. So use, use, use those magic fighting skills OP, get them up so you have something to kill with.