I don't consider streamline essential.

I've always found it buggy.

Okay. Duly noted. I've also heard it conflicts with OSR. So would it be best just to have just OSR in the performance category? I also wonder if I should even recommend OSR as a beginner mod. It does have a lot of options and settings to configure which a newbie might not know what to do with.

And therein is the whole crux of the problem - what is too much?

I consider these four things the factors that help my game the most:
Cleaning mods
OSR
4gb patch
Optimizing Meshes

But none are that newbie friendly. OSR and 4gb are probably the easiest.

For streamline - here is my take on it. The streamsaves always ended up getting corrupted, The streamwhatever for sliding the viewdistance would get erratic, the purging when left on would crash. So the only thing I ended up using it for was the fog and that has been replaced by All Natural's fog.

OSR comes with a default .ini that will "out of the box" help performance considerably already. If the user gets into it he can read up on OSR .ini settings for himself and start experimenting. Especially turn HeapMode setting on may improve performance, but the size of the heap and which heap mode is a matter of trial and error on each individual system.

As to Streamline, I would disagree with Psymon in the sense that the streamsave function is working fine for me. How were those savegames corrupted? Would they not load anymore or not play correctly? Really just asking, so I can be on the lookout for any corruption. Using SL together with OSR is definitely possible. However if doing so, it is best to disable the SL function for FPS increase. I know Skyranger-1 said you can use even that, but then you have to set the SL ranges in a certain way relative to the OSR ranges, and it is a hassle really, not worth going through.

As to SL fog, the SL fog works well. I had no problems with it. Admittedly though, the All Natural fog is more configurable and may please the user even more. Since AN weather mod I would consider an essential mod (maybe not for a level 1 mod newbie though), SL fog is definitely not needed if using AN.

I am using SL for the streamsave function and the cell buffer purge function only. All other SL options I have disabled. If you like, I can put up my SL.ini, so a potential user may see how it can be used sensibly in the game. If one truly dislikes SL, there is a mod from Kuertee (I think Autosave and Time) that also does autosaving and cell buffer purging, IIRC.

In the Concordance there should be mention of installing OBSE plus some of the other helpers: FastExit, Conscribe, maybe Elys Silent Voice and those.

Well the saves would say corrupted and not load. Very well could have been caused by other mods running at time of save.

But regardless even if the saves were what worked then is that an optimizer thing? There are other rolling save mods that don't have all the stuff you have to turn off to make work. Even buffering and save from Kuertee I'd recommend if one had to use those kinds of mods.

I'd classify conscibe under a debugging section along with mods like Actor details and refscope.

It dawns on me that while we constantly stress the need to read mod documentation, whether readme or web article, I don't recall ever seeing an article or thread on HOW to read said documentation, in particular what can be taken with a grain of salt or even ignored. The sort of thing I'm thinking about is mostly common sense stuff that most of us take for granted but might throw a newcomer off. I'll provide a few obvious examples.

We stress use of BAIN or at least OBMM for mod installation. At the same time we stress following readme instructions. To this day a great many readmes contain nothing but manual install guidance. What is the new mod users to do? Follow our advice or that of the mod creator? We as knowledgeable installers know that in this case the author's failure to mention OMODs and BAIN, with only a few rare exceptions, means absolutely nothing, and that it is perfectly safe and desirable to create OMODs and BAIN packages from the creators loose files. But again a newcomer might not know that and assume he/she must do a manual install because that's what the official documentation seems to aver.

Here's another one. Many a mod requirement section includes the requisite Oblivion version, as it should. With older mods this is apt to be a version earlier than 1.2.0416. Or maybe an earlier version is listed because the mod doesn't require Shivering Isles. That's all well and good, but a newcomer needs to know that if he or she is already using 1.2.0416 he/she does NOT need to retrograde to the earlier patch in order to use the mod.

Along the same line, we continue to stress that users always update to the current patch 1.2.0416 immediately following initial install. What is often forgotten is that most newcomers will have bought PC Oblivion as some form of GOTY edition which, when both disks are installed, guaranties them 1.2.0416. Newcomers should be told that if a readme or web article/thread tells them to download and install said 1.2.0416 this advice can be safely ignored if running GOTY (or 5th Anniversary). They should also be given easy way to verify their Oblivion version if in doubt.

We should stress that when advised to correct or alter something via Oblivion.ini, the file in question is NOT the Oblivion_default.ini house in the game directory but the one in the C:\Users\\My Documents\My Games\Oblivion folder, in this case assuming one uses Win7, which we can't. Seems obvious, but people tend to confuse to two.

Likewise a sub-section on once popular ini-altering recommendations that are nowadays considered obsolete.

That's just a few things that popped into my head. I'm sure there are any number of others. The point is, again, that we should stress not only reading instructions but HOW to interpret them.

-Decrepit-

A list of cyclic autosave/buggy quicksave replacer mods would be handy. I hate playing without them now.

What kind of feedback are you looking for on the site? I'm not going to comment on content, as that's not set in stone yet, so this is just my friendly opinion on format.

* The pure black background is harsh and should be toned down to a greyish colour. Or, a light colour. It needs to be easy to look at.
* The moon is awesome, but it leaves the right side of the page completely empty and a waste of space.
* The first thing a user should see is the Recommended Mods list, that is the entire point of the site, and not have to scroll down to find it. (It's almost not even on the page) If it's not handed to them on a silver platter, they won't bother with it.
* I would suggest the first 3 categories be moved to menu links to other pages as FYI info if people want to read it. The menu could be in the wasted space on the right. Or move that space to the left (more in line with other website formats)
* Might be just me but the font seems a little large. Remember, this is going to end up a very large list, so might want to compact it a bit.

Again, just my humble opinion as I delurk and speak up for the community.

With all the good will in the world I don't know if a site like this will be of great help to the average newbie to Oblivion`s modded world.
Don`t get me wrong. If the inexperienced would sit down and take the time to digest the thread then of course it would be beneficial. I think we know that`s very unlikely to happen though.
As for recommended mods they are very few - the Unofficial Patches plus a mod manager - be it OBMM or BAIN via Wrye Bash.
To be frank mentioning steps like Pyffi , mod cleaning and game performance utilities that require experimentation through ini files for optimal performance is going to be over the heads of the new user. To such an extent it may even frighten them away from the modded game if mentioned as a requirement or recommendation.
They are not a requirement. The game performed for the most part fine before these steps became fashionable in the last couple of years. My take is these steps shouldn`t be mentioned in any thread aimed at the novice.
Any mod player who isn`t just passing through will eventually reinstall and look for performance enhancers and ways to expand game content.
That would be the time to point them toward the more advanced steps mentioned above.

We should IMO alter this thread perhaps into something leaning toward popular mods for beginners and not recommendations.

edited for spelling.

Thanks for the feedback, although that is not going to be the actual location, format, or aesthetic. It's just a temporary location to work out the initial structure, and will eventually be moved over to the TES Nexus wiki (http://wiki.tesnexus.com/index.php/How_to_create_an_OMOD). I didn't want to create the wiki page until after we had a solid base page to work with that was fully flushed out. Basically I'm just concerned about structure and content.

I've updated the temp page based on some of the more recent feedback and other ideas that were mentioned earlier that I hadn't gotten around to. Here are my current questions:
- How do you all feel about the overall structure and sequence of information?
- Is the expanded structure of the mod description more along the lines of what we've been talking about?
- Are the categories good? Is their order good? Are there any missing?

Although I think the main focus at the moment should be overall structure and format, any suggestions for content are welcome as well.

I agree with a great deal of the above. Cleaning, Pyffiling, and anything that requires any major .ini decisions doesn't belong in the recommendations section. Personally, I don't know what you mean by "popular mods for beginners" and "recommended mods for beginners", although in my mind, "popular" may not necessarily be a good choice, since just because a mod is popular, does not necessarily mean it's suitable for the novice.

Ok, well that was a waste of a post Moving on then...

I won't comment on format again, as this isn't in the format it will end up being. My first question looking at the new structure is why have a pros and cons? Why would a mod even be on this list if it had a con? This will confuse newcomers to modding. It's confusing me.

I agree the Unofficial Patches should be the only Essentials. However, there are also things like Fast Exit and Elys Silent Voice that, to me, are essential, just not sure what kind of category they should be under.

I've seen many threads where DarnUI has tripped up a newcomer, not sure why it's on the list. Maybe the OMOD only is easy enough as it updates the ini, but certainly not a manual install. Perhaps this should be mentioned. DarkDarn is exactly the same just looks different, I don't think it needs it's own section. The links could go under DarnUI.

As for Categories;
Character Creation and Advancement should be separate
Body Mods - self explanatory - HGEC, Roberts Male
Beauty Mods - tons of hair, face, eye, texture replacer mods out there
Companions - Vilja being the most obvious, CM Partners
Towns and Villages - Windfall, Bartholm, Pell's Gate, any of Arthmoors mods
Sound - Sounds of Cyrodiil, Symphony of violence
Immersion - Better Cities, Open Cities Reborn, Immersive Interiors, Enhanced Economy, Basic Primary Needs or any other eat/sleep mod
Will there be an Overhaul category? That's a common question of newcomers


Additional Recommendations;
In World and Environment - All Natural definitely, Storms and Sounds, Unique Landscapes
Game Mechanics - Combat - Unnecessary violence, Deadly Relex,
Weapons and Armor? Not sure about this category, sounds like it could become too subjective

One thing I am concerned about is recommending mods that have a history of being buggy. Deadly reflex is a cool mod to recommend, but I'm not sure if it's a good call to recommend for new modders.

Basically the goal is to recommend mods that make a modders first time as simple as possible, yet rewarding. Perhaps the more complicated mods could be on another page for "Recommended mods for advanced modders" or something like that.

Someone asked about why list the pros and cons. Well, although the mods should be fairly simple to install and use, I think it's only fair to put out disclaimers of known "gotchas" so that they can make an informed decision.

(null)