Difficulties with Red Bag Fog : IV

» Tue May 08, 2012 9:08 pm

Unfortunately I read about this mod in a recent thread ("mysterious oblivion"?) and installed it.

This mod has no readme, no settings.
Couldn't remove its effect from game with uninstall, delete. (BAIN)

And thanx to this, CTDs appeared every 2 minutes.

Was installing mods one-by-one and always tested...

Active Mod Files:

Spoiler

00  Oblivion.esm  [CRC: 2FF840C5]01  All Natural Base.esm  [Version 1.3.2]  [CRC: F2356244]02  Oscuro's_Oblivion_Overhaul.esm  [Version 1.34]  [CRC: C09734F4]03  Better Cities Resources.esm  [Version 5.1.1]  [CRC: 32BA9021]04  RealisticLeveling.esm  [CRC: 5CA1A2DB]**  TNR ALL RACES FINAL.esp  [CRC: 3EAE3D44]05  Unofficial Oblivion Patch.esp  [Version 3.4.1]  [CRC: 3F5452A7]06  UOPS Additional Changes.esp  [CRC: DF22FDCD]07  Oblivion Citadel Door Fix.esp  [CRC: 01B694D9]08  DLCShiveringIsles.esp  [CRC: 2BB84977]09  Unofficial Shivering Isles Patch.esp  [Version 1.5.0]  [CRC: CCD63FCF]0A  USIPS Additional Changes.esp  [CRC: 11720CEB]0B  Better Cities .esp  [Version 4.7.0]  [CRC: 8F16A015]0C  Natural_Habitat_by_Max_Tael.esp  [CRC: 48A6FB2A]0D  All Natural.esp  [Version 1.33]  [CRC: DA14962E]0E  Realistic Water.esp  [CRC: 4B04A062]0F  Better Bell Sounds.esp  [CRC: DBF0A1F2]++  Symphony of Violence.esp  [CRC: EDFF56A7]10  Echo_ChapelChant.esp  [CRC: 1463180E]11  Atmospheric Oblivion.esp  [CRC: 0DEF6521]12  PCSoundBorrodin.esp  [Version 2.6]  [CRC: A3E3F963]++  Drum_Fix.esp  [CRC: 3764B8B0]13  Sounds of Cyrodiil.esp  [Version 1.1]  [CRC: 5A11E6F3]14  Rainbows.esp  [CRC: 71BDDEC0]15  All Natural - Real Lights.esp  [Version 1.3.2]  [CRC: 0DA4F15C]16  LightsOut.esp  [CRC: 774ED109]17  AliveWaters.esp  [CRC: 0717BF5A]18  AliveWaters - Koi Addon.esp  [CRC: 47A85077]19  AliveWaters - Slaughterfish Addon.esp  [CRC: FA521F62]++  Brighter_Torches.esp  [CRC: C4032BDC]1A  ClocksOfCyrodiil_BC_OBC_OC_OCLR_Vanilla.esp  [CRC: 56B294D6]1B  Display Stats.esp  [Version 2.0.1]  [CRC: D0E2047B]1C  Musical Immersion 1.0.esp  [CRC: 0EED4339]1D  Oblivion Graphics Extender Support.esp  [Version 0.42]  [CRC: C4DFF31B]1E  Dynamic Map.esp  [Version 2.1.1]  [CRC: D538B7E2]1F  DLCHorseArmor.esp  [CRC: BAD48E5D]20  DLCHorseArmor - Unofficial Patch.esp  [Version 1.0.7]  [CRC: A16F41AB]21  DLCSpellTomes.esp  [CRC: 312156F8]++  DLCSpellTomes - Unofficial Patch.esp  [Version 1.0.1]  [CRC: 8CC91BA1]22  PTArtifacts.esp  [CRC: 82EAD742]**  mz_Shields.esp  [CRC: B1D9EF78]23  Oscuro's_Oblivion_Overhaul.esp  [Version 1.34]  [CRC: AD2A2935]++  FineWeapons for OOO.esp  [CRC: E1C33F17]**  RustyItems for OOO.esp  [CRC: 1B1B0D5A]24  Harvest [Flora].esp  [Version 3.0.0]  [CRC: FA700811]25  Dungeon Actors Have Torches 1.6 DT.esp  [CRC: 00B1CF2D]26  Exterior Actors Have Torches 1.32 DT.esp  [CRC: F894D8EF]27  Kyoma's Journal Mod.esp  [Version 3.2.1]  [CRC: 1863B28F]28  kuerteeInventoryIsABackpack.esp  [CRC: 51B2E0A0]29  kuerteeGoldIsAnInventoryItem.esp  [CRC: 54442781]2A  Soulgem Magic.esp  [Version 2.0]  [CRC: 73FDB16B]2B  Quest Award Leveller.esp  [CRC: 22C2F3DA]2C  RealisticFatigue.esp  [CRC: FF804F18]2D  RealisticHealth.esp  [CRC: D70D9601]2E  RealisticForceMedium.esp  [CRC: 277BD021]2F  RealisticMagicForceLow.esp  [CRC: 73E67592]30  ZumbsLockpickingMod - OBSE.esp  [CRC: 5B264CC5]31  kuerteeNPCsYield.esp  [CRC: 1A242980]32  Duke Patricks - Near Miss Magic And Arrows Alert The Target.esp  [Version 7.1]  [CRC: A2B5BB91]33  Duke Patricks - Actors Can Miss Now.esp  [CRC: 9D91137E]34  Sneaking Detection Recalibrated.esp  [Version 4.0.3]  [CRC: 2F4FD986]35  SDR Perks And Patches - Oblivion.esp  [Version 1.0.2]  [CRC: 4146E76E]36  Better Cities Full.esp  [Version 5.1.1]  [CRC: F36DD52F]**  Better Cities Full - B&M Edition.esp  [Version 5.1.1]  [CRC: F55B0A04]37  Better Imperial City.esp  [Version 5.1.1]  [CRC: 508777D6]38  Better Cities - All Natural.esp  [Version 4.9.5]  [CRC: C850522C]39  OOO-Respawn_Two_Week.esp  [Version 1.33]  [CRC: F6344872]++  OOO Harvest Containers Filter patch for mods.esp  [Version 1.03]  [CRC: 55B9D683]**  All Natural - Indoor Weather Filter For Mods.esp  [Version 1.3.2]  [CRC: F4D1E390]3A  Bashed Patch, 0.esp  [CRC: 72BD1057]3B  FullGrass1.1.esp  [CRC: 40178F85]

So, now a clean reinstall ? ...

» Tue May 08, 2012 5:44 pm

Try loading a save from BEFORE you installed the mod. That will guarantee no leftover data from the mod is there. If your problems persist at that point, they are being caused by a different mod.

» Wed May 09, 2012 1:57 am

Downloaded Redbag Fog to have a look at it. It just edits default weathers and has no scripts. This makes me wonder if changes to default weathers are permanent, in a similar way that moving a door object would be permenant even after the .esp was removed. I just downloaded Lemundes Weather Upgrade and your post makes me afraid to use it.

» Wed May 09, 2012 1:00 am

Thanx to you for info.

No prev. saves, as I have had so very good impressions with mods until now.
I just finished the tutorial, so I'll have to start a new game.

Maybe then the Fog effect won't be recreated.
OR:
if really such mods exist, which make permanent changes even when removing the esp,

then maybe a reinstall will be needed...

» Wed May 09, 2012 2:22 am

I personally recommend http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=25052 instead of Redbag Fog. I found the improvement is quite limited to enhance distant LOD in Oblivion, so I decide to cover them with fog; and the effect of Sfon's fog is the most satisfying one to me. The fog distance is just at the border between close and distant textures, in other words, all you can see are gorgeous close textures while ugly distant textures are covered. Furthermore, the tone of Sfon's fog won't make the sunny day look like cloudy day as other fog mods do.
However, Sfon's fog is not compatible with Better Cities. (I've tried twice)
It's important to back-up your save data before installing new mods.

» Wed May 09, 2012 3:23 am

amnes, just out of interest: Did you ever use the fog option from Streamline? How's it compares to Sfon?

Just asking because I had SL fog in the past and currently have it again, and find it quite OK. I'm not the ultimate fetishist when it comes to graphics and looks, but I'd still be interested to try out Sfon. You make it sound good. Just one sentence

, I'd appreciate. Much obliged.

» Tue May 08, 2012 2:04 pm

No prev. saves, as I have had so very good impressions with mods until now.
I just finished the tutorial, so I'll have to start a new game.

Pft. Just finished the Tutorial? You'd barely even started that game!

Doubtful you'll need to do a full install, just start a new game. Grab an Alt-start mod to get you going faster if you want an easier way to check.

» Tue May 08, 2012 3:57 pm

No prev. saves, as I have had so very good impressions with mods until now.
I just finished the tutorial, so I'll have to start a new game.

Then take this as a lesson: NEVER rely on a single save when you are playing a modded game. Having somewhere to fall back to in case things go wrong will save you an inordinate amount of grief in the long run.

Since you only just finished the tutorial, you won't lose much, thankfully. Just re-create your character and power through the sewers again. Won't take long if you rush things.

Or grab an alternate start mod if you don't want to.

» Wed May 09, 2012 2:38 am

A good practice is to make an extra save right before approaching the final gate, right before where one can re-set the character one final time before exiting the tutorial sewers for good.

Some mods may require a complete restart from within the prison cell to work 100%, but in 99% of cases the pre-gate save is sufficient to fall back to if you want to start a new game and/or different setup, different race whatever.

I point out that the Savegames tab in Wrye Bash is really helpful when managing savegames, as it takes care of any associated OBSE save data. Plus you can copy to other folders, make extra copies, manipulate the files, import faces etc.

» Wed May 09, 2012 3:28 am

1) When you uninstall a weather mod and reload a save where your character is outdoors, the best you can hope for is "empty" weather, because which weather is happening is stored in the save, and the mod containing the definition of that weather is now gone. Crashing isn't unfathomable in such a case, and you might experience the same uninstalling any weather mod. Re-install the mod, go inside somewhere unaffected by any weather mods (testinghall is a good place), wait 3 days for everything outside to reset. Then save and uninstall the mod. When you reload the game, the situation should be resolved.

2) Testing just as you add isn't enough, because, as you are noticing, that doesn't tell you what will happen when you uninstall a mod. You were running two weather mods at the same time, how do you know the crashing isn't related to that silly blunder? If Redbag's mod changed something that one of All Natural's script was looking to be in a vanilla state, that could cause all kinds of problems. Furthermore, have you tried disabling all your other mods except Redbag's, making a save with just Redbag's enabled, and then uninstalling Redbag's to see if the issue persists? You should at least have absolute and concrete proof before you go bashing a mod harshly and publicly, which brings me to my next point...

3) Don't start boycott threads on mods. It's a crappy thing to do to a mod maker, who probably worked hard to get things just so and then share it freely with the public, and doesn't deserve to be slandered in such a manner. If you really think something is broken or you have a problem with a mod, politely ask for help, preferably from the mod maker directly. Most of us who release stuff to the public do actually want it to work well within the scope of our abilities to facilitate it, and will gladly offer help if you show a shred of graciousness.

» Tue May 08, 2012 2:35 pm

I like Khettienna, she gives good advice here.

» Wed May 09, 2012 4:05 am

Agreed, good post Khettienna

Note also SFon fog linked above works pretty much the same way RedBag Fog does, it just does it closer.

I have swapped out RedBag Fog for All Natural on my laptop many times (when All Naturals new fog was introduced I wanted to do lots of comparisons) - And did not have any problems so long as you are indoors and do the clean save routine. I still use All natural exclusively on the desktop, but on the laptop for a few reasons I prefer RedBags Fog

Streamline Streamsight : I mentioned this in the BOSS thread recently ...

Distant fog limited by Streamsight to the distance you have set in the oblivion.ini for UgridDistantCount and UGridDistantTreeRange, then set your SL Min Fog Range and SL Max Fog Range accordingly, using the Streamsight Fog Ranges.mht file (its part of Streamlines documentation files) as a guide for the right settings.

Then any closer in fog is handled by either All Natural or RedBag Fog (or another weather mod), and maximum distant horizon fog is handled by Streamsight (for those people cutting off the distance of trees for performance purposes streamsight just masks the trick with distant fog).

Streamsight can complement all weather mods, to ensure a maximum fog range is adhered to and masks trees being cut off, but its not a replacement for weather mods in this regard.

Heres a couple of screens to distinguish what Streamsight is doing, away from what RedBags Fog is doing ...

Streamsight Distant fog http://www.bild.me/bild.php?file=3518443ScreenShot373.jpg

and then RedBags Fog varying all the different weather types closer fog ranges down to a pea soup fog http://www.bild.me/bild.php?file=5631012ScreenShot371.jpg

I found SFon fog a bit too harsh, because it cuts off the maximum range of fog for all weather types at a very close range, when you stand in one spot at a high vantage, and just look around you can see bits of land etc being chopped off as you pan .. Which is why I prefer Streamsight to do that job, which can be set to a similar range as SFon and because it fades the cut off point between its minimum and maximum distant fog range, instead of just cutting it off dead at one maximum range.

» Tue May 08, 2012 12:34 pm

Also worth noting that changes made to the vanilla weather color/light/fog values are not stored permanently once made. They will revert at the next natural weather transition.

The major problem here likely came from the fact that RedBag was installed alongside All Natural and the two were fighting each other for control of the fog. That never ends well.

» Tue May 08, 2012 8:48 pm

Thanx everybody for your very helpful info. How do you have so much time?

Khettienna, your thougts are mostly welcome, thanx for your details on fixing and defending thy fellow modders. Anyway, your adjective usage is very versatile

Dear RedBag, sorry if thy masterpiece was harmed. Perhaps attach a readme.

Perhaps a moderator could change the title of this thread to something more neutral, as I cant do it.

Thanx.

» Tue May 08, 2012 3:59 pm

Perhaps a moderator could change the title of this thread to something more neutral, as I cant do it.

It was requested and done.

» Tue May 08, 2012 9:50 pm

I like Khettienna, she gives good advice here.

Khett for President! YEAH!

» Tue May 08, 2012 1:21 pm

Thanx everybody for your very helpful info. How do you have so much time? :smile:

Khettienna, your thougts are mostly welcome, thanx for your details on fixing and defending thy fellow modders. Anyway, your adjective usage is very versatile

Dear RedBag, sorry if thy masterpiece was harmed. Perhaps attach a readme.

Perhaps a moderator could change the title of this thread to something more neutral, as I cant do it.

Thanx.

That's quite respectable of you, thank you. :foodndrink:

» Wed May 09, 2012 1:39 am

amnes, just out of interest: Did you ever use the fog option from Streamline? How's it compares to Sfon?

Just asking because I had SL fog in the past and currently have it again, and find it quite OK. I'm not the ultimate fetishist when it comes to graphics and looks, but I'd still be interested to try out Sfon. You make it sound good. Just one sentence :smile:

, I'd appreciate. Much obliged.

Just as what others said, Sfon fog would conflict with other weather mods. I barely got CTD when I installed both All Natural and Sfon fog, but the fog effect from Sfon is always "removed" by All Natural. I haven't tried SL fog deeply, so I can't really compare them.

» Tue May 08, 2012 2:30 pm

off topic- my closing words - not recommended to read

No need to define my actions ("crappy thing to do, harsh, respectable of you", etc), we dont know each other,
so I wont accept your opinion.

in the depth I am so fed up with firy youth, uncontrollable emotions and mainly forums: being obliged writing to unknown ones.

live your life full with hope, until you can believe...

» Tue May 08, 2012 5:53 pm

off topic- my closing words - not recommended to read

Was this a poem?

» Tue May 08, 2012 1:31 pm

off topic- my closing words - not recommended to read

OK, as I assume that is a request to close your thread I will do so.