The "green" status means (as stated above the list) "permission is given" or "permission is given under conditions" or "permission is not needed" (because the mod author wrote so).

OOO falls under the "permission is given under conditions" category. I spoke directly to CorePC and he told exactly under which conditions I could use OOO and I knew I could meet these conditions, so I marked the mod with green color. Shortly after I got CorePC`s reply (the one mentioned above) I decided to drop the gameplay-changing mod category and wrote to CorePC about this. There never was a permission denial on OOO, there were just the conditions dictated by CorePC, conditions I knew I could meet.

On OBSE. Ian Patterson wrote he`s personally fine with it, under the condition that Oblivion Evolution does not overwrite a newer OBSE version with an older one and proposed to implement a version check into the installer. However, he said, he would need to talk with scruggsy and behippo, before giving permission. That`s why OBSE is correctly marked as "permission outstanding". So there was no denial of OBSE too. I didn`t hear anything from Ian since then, but at this point I already decided to let the project rest.

Regarding the missing support from the community. With that I didn`t refer to the expectaction, that the community should spend time helping me with this. I knew I could handle this alone as I did from the beginning, having a clear goal and knowing how to get there. I did refer to the fact, that the community as a whole didn`t seem to be happy with this. They didn`t like the idea to have a major compilation or the way this compilation is done or they simply didn`t trust me. I realised that having no blessing from the community (like Kingpix got from the Morrowind community) this whole thing is pointless.

The main reason why I started to update the Oblivion Mod FAQ thread was rather simple, because it was only 10-25% valid links there and the rest is broken so I just PM Princess about it and she locked the thread after that she talked with others about it.

I've no objection if you want to continue of what I started with the Oblivion Mod FAQ (1st post is the old one and 2nd post is the modifications I made) and besides a lot of time has now being wasted. Since I've already asked Tomlong about the FAQ thread of being hosted on TES Cosi why not both of you can improve the FAQ thread to get it updated one last time. If anyone of you need information about the Oblivion 5th Anniversary Edition just read the TES Cosi thread.

I'm actually more interested in making an intro to mods/FAQ that is generic enough to serve all the platforms. But specifically that land to the north of Cyrodiil.

Think about it from Morrowind to Oblivion to the Fallouts to Skyrim the set up is nearly identical - a what is mods then how to add them then what to watch out for.

Then each forum can have follow up posts more detailed to the specific game. Though I see Tommy and Deaths Soul have http://www.gamesas.com/topic/1337662-site-links-from-pinned-thread-they-work/ on updating the links in this forum's FAQ.

I suggest that we shouldn't call it a compilation because it isn't imo. It's just a list of mod recommendations for new players and that is what we should do to a have a list of mods that we know for sure is working and stable.

My advice is to remove Conscribe and OSR, becasue OSR is definitely needed if you're using texture mods like Qarl's texture packs and add MenuQue, RefScope (using it is easier for a new player), Pluggy to the list.

I consider this list to cover most aspects of a modded game not everything of course, but I think it could be a good guide of having mods installed. I personally have this mod list installed in my game without a problem.

Those conditions included not including any assets from OOO or modifying the .esp's/.esm's in any way — how on earth did you plan on meeting those conditions?

Including that as a "green" seems at the very least disingenuous to me.

I missed where this was going to be an installer; that would work, then, I suppose.

Probably true. A compilation would be, to my mind, a negative influence on this community. I've stated my whys way too many times to continue here. I have not been involved in the Morrowind community in quite some time, but I am very certain Kingpix would not have gotten any such blessing when I was, because the community then was much like this one now.

My whole reply concluded that there are mods for which permission would be given. I didn't say anything about "most popular" and "currently up-to-date". If those are the only mods you can come up with, then you've bottled yourself. I'm talking about finding a solution, not proposing another wall. Comments like that aren't helping anyone.

It looks like there is a mix of productive and non-productive discussions going on here. Maybe the recommended lists and mod FAQ update discussions can move to relevant threads and let this compilation topic die. It is turning into a series of mini arguments and hasn't progressed much since the second page.


--Tomlong75210

Listen, this whole subject has been debated dozens of times, always with the same results.
So I'll ask you this question. What user would download any type of compilation that isn't up to date or include the most popular and widely used mods?
Permissions for these are not forthcoming.
It's probably time for the whole mod package thing to be put away once and for all.
And forget what's happened with Morrowind. Oblivion is a completely different ball game with a different rule set and far more compatibility issues than the average MW user could ever have nightmares about.

If someone wants to take the responsibility of an advice center then that's up to them.
I'm being realistic when I say people move on to other things. It would only be a matter of time before it becomes as out dated as all of it's contemporaries.

Well to be really real as in realistic as it coheres to reality real ....

This topic will never die as long as there are mod compilations that are successful for ANY game. That there is one that is very successful for the game preceding this one is also what is going to bolster interest in a compilation.

Whether the game play version of MSGO is successful will pretty much sink any debate about this not being doable for Oblivion.

As I've said before the interest in a compilation would not be there to the degree it is IF (big if) the time it takes to learn to mod Oblivion were not so steep. While some of the incline is just part of the territory I'd say a rather large part of it can be attributed to methods being half described or needlessly complex. This comes right down to both the level of detail in readmes and the rigidity by which mods are made available for installing.

If a topic like this comes up over and over again how do you put it down? Just insist people agree with you and that closes the case?

Yup.
Seriously though, I think even you would have to admit that any type of successful and well received compilation pack for Oblivion is as far away now as it was at the game's release date.
As I said Oblivion is a very different animal than MW, even in the most unlikely event of modders allowing their works to be uploaded and out with their direct control.

You must not install Mods with Morrowind then since there are far more compatibility problems there then in Oblivion and most of the issues can't even be fixed without modifing the mods yourself. Also many of the issues are things that can't even happen in Oblivion which creates even more compatibility issues. If you want to make a long load order in Oblivion you just need to get the patches and use Wrye Bash to get most mods to work together but with Morrowind if you want the same thing it is virtually impossible to get it all working together perfectly.

PS. I have been reading these threads with people wanting to make mod compilations and even in the threads where they are going by the rules that the community sets forth and getting permission for everything, they are bullied constantly until they quit. That is the entire reason why there are only mod compilations not associated with this community and that don't have permissions. It doesn't matter whether there are plenty of mods available to get permissions for since the bullying makes people give up. Why should people have to deal with bullying when they are trying to do something with their own free time for other peoples sake.

PPS. I still think something like "Big World Setup" would be good to use and it doesn't seem all that difficult to create since they use Autoit for it which means there is no programming and it is script based. They could always add a function to NMM to download a mod list with a list of preselections that it could auto-download and install to do pretty much the same.

This bullying is not new. There is very much a contingent of folks who want people to not only believe things the way they do but to not voice any dissent. I can undersand this to a degree. Some people have been working in teams here for several years. They do seek to protect each other - they do want to prevent bad practices and bad advice from circulating.

They also can get stuck in their ways. What was cutting edge and shiny new 6 years ago now seems kinda backwards.

I predict that a successful (at least to the degree that MSGO is) mod compilation will happen for Oblivion - once more people have moved on to the newer games and all mods go into final status. Once new hobbies fill their eyes and they focus on that stuff the arguments will fall down as will the concern. Too soon for that, but the arguments against a mod compilation will be easily if not already defeated:
1. Compilations don't teach how to add mods ... who cares Oblivion modding is dying and anyway I just want the basics.
2. Mod authors shouldn't have to worry about outdated versions of their mods being out there ... all included mods are final (that goes for technical support and conflicts as well).
3. Compilation authors shouldn't get credit for included mods ... it is an honor to have my mod included in the list for THE compilation.
4. ... What I forget?

All in time ... all in time.

And to be clear - I'm actually not supporting a compilation (most days)

We all got our soapboxes ... I think Lojack is working to destroy mine (bless him).

I can agree with this.

I dont think a Compilation will be supported for quite a few years.....just look how long it took Morrowind to except one. But as modders move away, new versions of mods stop happening, and all that is left is the same core mods and people who use them.....It will be then that a compilation will be able to make it through.

Until then we will still get all the negativity towards them...



But until that time, a links list and installing guide will be of great benifit to fill that hole.

I'll just note here that it's taken 10 years for a Morrowind graphics & sound compilation to be mostly accepted, and that's the easier of them to make. I expect the gameplay one to be a lot more trouble.

Edit: Bah, damn editor

What is the purpose of a single "dump it in the Data folder and be done with it" compilation?

What do you seek to achieve?

Greater numbers of people using mods? To what end? Few, if any, are likely to convert into productive or even active members of the community.

So what is the purpose? What are is your goal, and why should anyone help you achieve it?

Because this is what I'm not seeing. I see no practical reason to go through all this trouble, no practical reason why any modder should waive any of their rights.


Better guides and tutorials, a more thorough list, perhaps ordered by ease of installation — those are things that would be useful. They encourage learning and involvement in the community, and they're overall probably less work and definitely involve far less cost to modders.

I agree. Just remember what happen to the compilation threads we had last year and only one who could convince the community about one mod was Underground for his ROM mod.

I haven't thought about it until now, but we do have a mod compilation pack already and that's Bethesda's official DLC, which UOP fully supports and keeps it updated if a need arise. I was lucky to get my hands on The Fighter's Stronghold for free on Elderscrolls.com site during the weekend it was free to download back in October 2008 or was it October 2009 and that was the only DLC that wasn't included on KotN retail. What I'm saying is that just take the DLC as a compilation and add more mods through a guide, because you can play Oblivion without BOSS, Wrye Bash if you only have DLC, UOP installed but you won't get its potential out of the mods by doing that.

Apologies for the length of this post, but:
I’m not a modder, but I am a (fairly heavy) mod user and I’ve read through - (admittedly “most” of) - this thread with interest.

The OP’s idea is unfortuinately somewhat idealistic and doomed to failure IMHO because:

Anyone with half an ounce of sense will do some reading up before diving in and will find out - (as I did) - that in order to kick off the game you really only need a couple of things, the game (obv), the official patch, the unofficial patch/es, and obse - if you plan on doing anything else.
That information is all here in the forum. You don’t NEED anything else to play the game, you just need to READ.

It is entirely reasonable to say that nobody playing the game should have a sense of entitlement as to mods and should not expect to have a perfectly set up compilation of mods handed to them. I am constantly amazed by the amount of talent that is out there, that you guys are examples of and that you give your time and expertise for free is laudable in the extreme. This kind of thing with suggested compilations will I think change that paradigm, and not in a good way I would suggest.

Compilations of anything are notoriously difficult to put together and invariably lead to nothing but arguments, aside from the permissions and versioning of the original mods themselves - (already mentioned) - you have issues of WHAT mods you put together which even discounting compatibility means that you would have to second guess the needs and wants of people. For example I for one like a lot of eye candy and I like my anime and custom armors and some custom quests - that’s a bit random for a compilation. I’m not interested in EE, or anything like that so a compilation featuring this would not suit me.
So what would you do? have a compilation that tries to match the needs of what people “might” want? That’s impractical and nigh-on impossible because for every player who wants the set meal there’s one like me who wants to dip in and out of the menu whenever they feel like it - if you get my drift.

Add to that the fact that many mods out there have sub-mods which seek to improve upon them - for example Max Tael’s Natural Weather has at least 2 or 3 different versions - by a couple of different people and that mod is just a part of a mod for the entire natural environment, of which there are many others, many of them just as good. You cannot include that choice in a compilation and nor should you because it’s unfair to the developers of those mods.
How would you as a modder feel if some set compilations were made and you somehow “didn’t make the grade” - that’s not right.

What mods you add/I add should be a matter of choice. My game is unique to me and to try to level that playing surface is doomed to fail because you cannot please everyone and would end up pleasing no one.

Again there are questions of permissions, how it would be kept up to date, conflicts, versioning - it would be a nightmare. Add to that the fact that you end up with potentially some kind of tacit obligation to design mods so that they fit a certain template for a compilation and you’re immediately on a road to nowhere - it would limit some modders in what they did ,others would flatly refuse, x might not want his stuff to be explicitly included with y’s.
All sorts of trouble!

There are already mods that compile major changes - UL, OOO, MMM - all of these provide players with opportunities for major overhauls by compiling together themed aspects. And that’s how it should be because we should have freedom to choose and you should have freedom to make without feeling that it has to be part of some compilation for people who are frankly too lazy to look around and see what’s there and see what to do.

Which - for anyone who is still reading this - brings me to my last 2 points:

I have learnt a lot about adding mods, and am still learning and that has really enhanced my appreciation of the game. If I want something I have to read up on it, if I get stuck I ask in the appropriate places - (mostly ) - but the important thing is that I learn and my experience is enriched because of that. I do not believe that sticking a load of stuff in a compilation would in any way enhance or enrich a new player’s experience because they would not develop any concept of what they were actually adding to the game.
And I think ultimately that dumbs it down and and is A Bad Thing.

So what, as a user of mods, would I want? What we have - some stickies with categorised links to mods to make it easier for me to browse through what there is and to find what I want, and some information on what my prerequisites are.
I and I suspect thousands of other players didn’t need to be spoonfed to get up and running and modding the game and I don’t see why it should be any different for any other new players. There is more than enough information in these forums to help people get the game they want, how they want it.
Better for me, better for you.

That’s what *I* think anyway.


Mat

You do bring up a couple of good points and I agree to most of it what you just said. It's entirely up to your self to decide what mods you want to play or not.

This. Wise words from someone who's recently experienced it. Most importantly the words "still learning". New players need to be aware that modding their game is not a quick one time experience and it's done, such as a compilation would give them. It's an ongoing process every single time you add a new mod.

Another thing that needs to be stressed to new modders is READ the ReadMe. Modders put them together for a reason. The answers to most questions asked are in them. Whatever the community decides to write up to help others doesn't need to go into minute detail because of ReadMe's. Wrye Bash has a perfectly good site that I've learned alot from, I understand wrinklyninja is writing up a comprehensive ReadMe for BOSS. These are invaluable, and the community doesn't need to rewrite everything or pages and pages of How To's. The information is out there.

I'll admit I haven't looked at the FAQ that people are cleaning up right now but IMO, a stickied post here is the best place for it. A thank you to those working on it.

I'm actually doing a rewrite of the Wrye Bash docs. BOSS's docs are already comprehensive.

And now I am actually using it I wonder why I didn't start using it sooner!!

This is very, very true. I've been modding Elder Scrolls games for nearly ten years now. I'm still learning things I didn't know.

Double QFT. I've only been at this in earnest since 2008 and am still learning things as I go.

As far as actual compilations, I once suggested to someone trying to make one at the time that perhaps it would be better to start with just visuals and audio effects. There are TONS of these things out there now. They're not still in a constant state of flux, and for the most part, nearly all of us are using these bits and pieces as a base package. Securing permissions for them shouldn't be terribly difficult and I think it would at least be a decent start.

Where the big problem comes from are the actual meat and potatoes mods. Stuff that changes the game in certain ways. Overhauls being the most obvious. Who decides which overhaul goes into a comprehensive package? Will it be FCOM? TIE? ROM? OWCND? Some insane attempt to combine them all? How do you get permission to even use such a thing? Then what about secondary stuff, like villages, quests, armors, weapons, etc? Who decides which ones of THOSE get picked?

Once you start thinking about this stuff it should be pretty obvious why nothing like this can succeed for Oblivion. There's too much diversity of content already. There's no possible way to distill it all down to a nice neat package that fits under the 255 limit without excluding a whole lot of nice things. A package like this runs a serious risk of marginalizing anything not included with it from the start.

Comparing this community to those that cater to other games is silly. So far as I can tell, no other game series approaches the flexibility and available content that TES games have. Community mod packs in those other games make more sense because there's simply not as much to begin with, and what exists tends to be widely used by nearly everyone anyway.

I understood the first rule of usage differently: that I am not allowed to use resources from OOO separately, because CorePC asked me, which parts of OOO I`m interested in. If you`re right about this, then indeed I wouldn`t be able to use OOO as I was planning to feature the whole mod. The other rule says I`m allowed to modify the OOO esp/esm, but only if these changes come as a separate esp/esm. Oblivion Evolution covers that via Wrye Bash as explained in the thread.

I`ve learned my lessons with Oblivion Evolution. I should have spent less time promoting this project, as experienced mod users are the last ones who need or want a compilation or overhaul (Oblivion Evolution was supposed to be the latter, but I don`t want fight over semantics). They have their own perfectly working mod setup and know how to customize it further by adding or removing other mods. Making your own mod setup from scratch, this is all about the choices you can make: its power lies in the freedom of choice and the endless customizability it offers. No compilation/overhaul could ever achieve that, that`s true.

So I`ve come to the conclusion that compilations/overhauls are about something else, they are about the choices someone else makes for you. Their power lies in their well-conceived design philosophy and its perfect execution. This may sound strange, but this is still the core concept of entertainment or art: letting someone else making the right decisions for you. Playing Skyrim for the first time you`re not complaining that it doesn`t offer customizability over all of its parameters. You go with the game, because you - to some degree - trust the developers and think that they know what they`re doing.

Well, I was and I am convinced to be able to achieve something similar with Oblivion Evolution, that means: to make the right decisions. Obviously not for everyone, especially not for modders, who already have their own mod setups, but nevertheless for a lot of people. That`s just me, claiming something I didn`t get the chance to prove. I don`t expect anyone to believe me. But making a good compilation/overhaul, that meets the criteria mentioned above and represents a powerful, coherent vision of a modded game can indeed be an achievement, something that demands respect.

Okay I just saw this thread. Please apologize grammar errors or if I say something that has been already said but I have really little time and I couldn't read all the thread.
I'm somewhat surprised that this topic came up again so fast, and it's nice to see that you are talking about it in a nice way, without drama

That being said there are some things that I would like to say.
MGSO is the major compilation for Morrowind, that's true. And I completely agree with you; it isn't for everyone.
But it certainly is for the majority of the newbie user the quickest way to have a (I hope) great looking version of Morrowind. Something important, that I always said when talking about this topic, is that quite a lot of people learned how to mod the game while installing this. How? With the tweaking guide that comes with the package.
I know you won't believe me Don't worry I'm used to it! But what's important for me is that I know it's true.

Another point about the compilation for Oblivion is that, like you said, MW and OB are different games with different mods. What would be cool to do in the first attempt is a graphics/sounds compilation and only if this works well try to do something with the rest.
The gameplay part of MW Overhaul, in fact, will be out in the future, aftert the technical one. And I'm not sure if or not it will work great (I hope so ).
And if it works, then we will know that something like that is possible.

Okay now I really have to go. If someone will get into this and needs some help with the software part (like automatic installer, updater or options) please send me a message. I'll help the best I can.

See ya soon I hope.