I'm considering a mod extension for the period after the MQ, when the last known offspring of Uriel Septim VII has been eliminated. Who would be the potential candidates for the emperor's job?

1) Any other illegitimate children of Uriel VII. If there was one, are there more? I'm thinking no, or the player would have been looking for all of them, not just Martin. But that wouldn't stop people claiming to be one.
2) Offspring of any siblings of Uriel VII. Did Pelagius IV have other children, legitimate or otherwise?
3) Same thing up another level. Did Pelagius IV have siblings who had descendants?
4) Did I miss any other relatives?

The Elder Council would have to investigate any claimants and Skyrim history says they failed to choose one, implying they had a choice, but didn't make it. The search for a successor to Martin would fit naturally into this point of history, which is why I'm posting here, instead of the Lore forum (plus it's for a mod).

A suggestion: Maybe the folks in the lore forum might have some more input? That said, I like your idea, especially considering the fact that the CK has enticed most modders away from Oblivion at the moment.

The Lore forum would tell me it didn't happen, and then get side-tracked into discussing events in Skyrim.

http://www.imperial-library.info/content/real-barenziah-part-7

A child of Calaxes Septim might be interesting, given Calaxes' interest in establishing a more theocentric (specifically, Akatosh-centric) religious government. Or, perhaps someone from the Uriel Septim VI side of the family.

Well, Titus Mede springs to mind. I recall he was said to have been the leader of an outlaw army. That makes me think that he made an early bid for power and failed. Sort of like the Nazi's Beer Hall Putsch. Then in the aftermath fled to the hills to with his surviving followers and scratched out a living as a bandit warlord. Until eventually he was able to rise to power again. So the mod might be about Mede's first attempt at power, which the player character (hopefully) can thwart.

Titus Mede will be useful later, but I didn't think he was a relative, just a conquering outsider, so he wouldn't be on Ocato's radar yet.

I'm trying now to get a handle on who the Elder Council would be considering as acceptable successors to Uriel VII. There are already some gaps in the historical succession, such as Cephorus II, whose relationship to Uriel IV is vague, which provides a bit of precedent on how widely they'd look. Since Martin was accepted, even though illegitimate, there's a grey area for who's allowed to claim, and who's not. Martin could argue that sending the Amulet of Kings to him was an act of legitimation by Uriel, and that confuses the "rules" even more. And the magical test of ability to wear the Amulet is no longer available. Given the TES rule of mother race being passed on, the heir could be of any compatible race, so I'm currently only ruling out Argonians.

One thing to consider is that there are no more members of Tiber's bloodline left, and least none that the general population would have known about, otherwise they would have been assassinated. In scenarios like these, in our own history, there are only so many options:
1. A non-royal blood relative of nobility is raised up
2. A theocracy takes over
3. An outside power sweeps in.
4. A pretender claims to be of royal bloodline
5. A warrior hero of local renown is asked to take the throne.

I'd say use all five of these as the main conflicting interests. More expanded ideas follow:

Scenario #1:
A non-blood relative could be something like this:

Royal parents	  Noble parents (non royal blood)	   ||			  ||		 ||Male (royal blood) = Female	 Male (uncle to royalty, though not of royal blood)	   ||Royal off-spring

So in this case, you have an uncle of the heirs who was the brother of Uriel's wife. This does not make him blood (and therefore not assassinated), but certainly would elevate his position and make him a legitimate claimant to the throne. This person is most likely on the council.

Scenario #2:
The ruin of the empire via Oblivion is considered to be a failing of modern religion. It opens up for a new cult that (falsely) takes credit for the banishment of the Oblivion invasion. The popularity begins to spread, and the key leading figure starts making a push to fill the vacated seat of power. The claim may have more strength if said leader is also on the council.

Scenario #3:
As presented, a warlord or some exterior invasion force plans to sweep in and either just ravage the land for what is left, or take over the seat of power. This could also be arranged from the inside, and could be connected to one of the council members.

Scenario #4:
Someone is presented as an illegitimate son, but still an heir, to Uriel Septim. The pedigree is documented, but since both the parents are dead, and all there is to back up the claim are the heresay of servants and those that were "in on the secret". Ideally, this should be a child, and conveniently, a member of the council who is acting as his protector, will naturally rule the kingdom until he comes of age.

Scenario #5:
The main character, the Hero of Kvatch is suggested. With the threat of war from outsiders, cultish non-sense, and who knows what else, who better than the man hand picked by the Emperor who manages to save the Empire from complete destruction - and has the Blades on his side to back him. Surely a member of the council would put forth that name, especially if he will take care of the "day to day" business of the realm since the Hero will be out busy doing Hero stuff.

So now you have a great dynamic of multiple factions, each with a supporter from within the council, all making a bid for power, with Ocato caught in the middle. I don't know how many members of the council there are, but if there are at least six, you are golden, one for each scenario, and Ocato trying to juggle it all.

Conceptually, it's an intriguing idea, but it's going to take a lot of work to pull it off.

It's a bit difficult to believe that none of Uriel VII's sons themselves had children. I mean, VII's three legitimate children all were at least 60 years old when assassinated. Martin had some self-proclaimed "wild days" growing up. And who knows about Calaxes.

I also wonder whether Uriel VII could have had a daughter... ?

Calaxes was assassinated;

http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Calaxes_Septim#Calaxes_Septim

Here's a link to the Septim line. Perhaps it will help with research.

http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Septim_Dynasty

The notes on that page put the assassination of Calaxes in some doubt. "Although no source states definitively that Calaxes died, no other outcome seems likely." And even if it did happen, could he have produced before? The Elder Council will want to be certain.

This will be an extension of my Gweden Brothel mod. The player takes over the Red Dragon Club in the city (previously run by the late Count of Kvatch) which happens to be a cover for the Elder Council's Intelligence operation. Hence I need to know what the spies will be investigating and dealing with. The main job would be the succession, but there will be others, such as the skooma trade.

Anyone known to be of the blood and to be alive would have been assassinated. I think you are better off assuming Calaxes is dead, one way or another. As for third generation heirs (sons of the princes), unless they were placed into hiding like Martin, they would also be assassinated, along with their mothers, cousins, etc. I think the implication from the way that Oblivion is set up is that the only reason Martin escaped is because no one except for Jauffre, Uriel and his mother knew that Martin was of the Septim line.

So, if you want someone of the actual Septim blood to still be around, you would have to duplicate the exact same scenario as Martin. Then comes the question: why? Unless that person's life was guaranteed to be in danger from birth, it's hard to see that happening. Uriel had special dream like powers that foretold the future, which would easily explain the choice to hide Martin (let alone the whole Calaxes debaucle).

Ultimately, story wise I think you are better off coming up with something creatively different than Oblivion's set up, otherwise you are just recycling the premise of the main quest. If all Septims are truly dead, then you are forced to come up with something more original.

From that link, the case of Cephorus might help:


The model for the Empire here is clearly based on Rome, not later medieval kingdoms. The Emperors of Rome had to have the support of the Senate and/or the army; being a relative of the emperor wasn't necessary, but like the Septims it added the claim of divine blood to bolster legitimacy. It was only Uriel VI who elevated the power of the emperor above that of the Elder Council, so you could easily envision a scenario where the elder council tries to regain its former glory refusing to crown a new heir or splits between two or more distant claimants, while the legions rally around one of their leaders and heroes.

While I will agree with most of saebel's points above, I will make one note: while it likely is true that all Septims in Mundus/Tamriel have been killed, Calaxes (or another relative) always could have been given the "gift" of living in the Shivering Isles. That would have shielded them from assassinations...and having a crazy-off-his-rocker Septim as heir has potential.

Remember that we know they didn't find anyone close enough for the Elder Council to accept them, and Ocato was made to act as Potentate within a few years. At the point right after the MQ, we're still looking for candidates, and Ocato's in charge of the search. He's a bureaucrat who wants to get back to being anonymously behind a figurehead, so he's eager to find someone. I'm setting this extra action in the futile search, so I actually don't want a good candidate, just a stream of failures, fakes, etc. to generate some action for the investigators.

But that means I must not overlook anyone obvious, and I almost missed the possibility of Calaxes' line (if any).

On this note... It is insinuated that Martin was a high-up follower of Sanguine at one point (having possessed the rose). I imagine Sanguine might have a hold of one or more heirs. Just for fun, maybe a half breed (Daedra/human). Did a quick Google Search, and there are a few examples of Daedra/human offspring. Could be a possible Champion of Sanguine that tries to take the Throne and turn Cyrodiil into a much more "fun" place.

I think that's the first time I've ever LOL'd on this forum.

The more I think about it, the more I like the idea of a separate mod just focusing on the Champion of Sanguine...hee hee...