It seems by most accounts(including visual cues from Fallout 3), that the United States of Fallout's timeline did not become engaged in the conflict in French-Indochina(it could even be assumed that France won). With that being said, what was the affect on the United States, by not having to fight in Vietnam(which we known in OTL left quite an impact on this nation, which is felt to this day.).

Because, as you say, the impacts are indeed felt to this day and wounds to the body of society from that war remain unhealed, the subject is to be discussed with the utmost sensitivity and circumspection if it is to be discussed at all.

The Vietnam war was the catalyst for a massive outpouring of dissent and disillusion with government, which persists in various forms to this day. It was also fodder for a new boldness in journalism, in which state secrecy was no longer a defense against the exposure of crimes committed by governments.

It could well be that these would not be factors in the Fallout 3 timeline, such that the Fallout 3 world would be characterized by little or no open dissent against laws or government policies, no organized resistance to compulsory military service, and no great willingness to expose abuses like the vault experiments.

All good points, and though the American experience in Vietnam is not officially listed as being the "Point of Divergence" I think that due to it's impact on the real world United States, it could also be seen as being a heavily influencing factor as it relates to descent(or the lack thereof in the Fallout Universe).

Also, I should remind anyone posting on this topic, to keep it CIVIL, and to keep this on topic as an exercise in alternate history, as opposed to a discussion on the merits of the Vietnam War in OTL.

I haven't finished the game yet, so I'm not aware of all the "visual cues", but I may take a stab at it (since this is speculation on a divergent time-line, correct?):

Perhaps the war with China was a protraction of the Korean Conflict. After the Chinese and Russian involvement, the U.S. reaction may have been much more militarily aggressive and less political (can we assume there is not a UN?) forcing a deeper penetration and actually occupying the mainland.

Ho Chi Minh could well have accomplished what he did during the '40's but when losing popular power in the '50's to internal struggles, China probably decided to focus less on aid in Indochina and concern herself more with defense in the North. France could have won at Dien Bien Phu and held control with lack of 5th Column aid from the Chinese and Russians. France stabilized SE Asia, and hence no vacuum of Western power needed for "containment".

Anyways, interesting topic. Interesting game. But, time to make the donuts...

Another interesting point to consider:

How would the doctrine/training of the US Army change when Vietnam is no longer a factor?

Examples?

To keep this as an alternate history answer, and not go into detail about Vietnam:

Why there was no Vietnam War in the Fallout Universe as per visual cues:

No Vietnam Veterans Memorial(The Memorial Wall)

No ERDL Pattern ever issued/seen(though developed in 1948 prior to the divergence)

US Army still using attrition style tactics during the "Great War" with China(obviously no lessons from Vietnam to learn from)

None of the social/political effects of the Vietnam War are present in Fallout's reality.

I could go on at length, but I believe this simplified list clearly shows that there was no Vietnam War in Fallout;s World.

No... those are all reasonable answers.... That being said, i never thought of the absence of the war memorial or tactical differences as evidence of no vietnam war... I kinda figured, the memorial coulda turned into so much black glass as to have vanished.... and since it's the kinda conflict that is left undiscussed since the US is viewed as having lost, that the pre-war historical accounts have simply been lost....
I see what your getting at, though...

I'd also guess that in the Fallout timeline, neither Robert McNamara nor William Westmoreland rose to any prominence.

Or their success came from something non-combat related....

That being said, if there were NO Vietnam War, it could well have been replaced by some parallel conflict, as in while Vietnam rages in our own universe, in the Fallout world some other war could have led to Westmoreland and McNamara being elevated.

Well the poor quality tactics displayed in the Great War(as referenced in Operation Anchorage), might actually be an indication that Westmoreland had a career in the Fallout Universe.

Though another option to consider, is that potentially the United States never fought a major conflict since Korea?

^^
If even Korea...
I think the implication for the pre-war US is a utopia that wouldn't have been involved in many combat conflicts....
Fake ones, ala 1984.... That seems likely.

An interesting point to consider:

For the sake of argument, let's assume that the United States never fought another major conflict post Korean War....In many ways, that would explain the proliferation what we would consider to be WW2 weapons. After all, since there were no lessons to learn from Vietnam, it stands to reason that there would be little need to change over to newer small arms.

The one thing, that still doesn't make much sense, is why does 5.56 become the standard for all branches in the Fallout Universe. After all, it seems as though tactically for the most part the US Army is still fighting using post WW2/Korean War tactics, and if memory serves me correctly(at least according to Fallout: Tactics) it seems as though only the USMC actually adopted the M-16, with the rest of the services probably still using the M14(or some sort of modernized version of the weapon). It's interesting to note though, that the M60 was still being fielded up until the Great War(as we find this weapon readily available in both Fallout's 1 & 2).

Well, the Fallout timeline doesnt state the Vietnam conflict, or a conflict occuring at that same point in time, nor is it stated anywhere in the game. So, it should be safe to assume it "never happened."

I think that US nationalism was never....damaged because the conflict never existed. Thats probably why the same 1950's mentality remained, and that weapons not used anymore by the US's modern military (such as the Flamethrower) is still being used by the Americans in the Sino-American conflict. Compared to our society, nothing really did change in the world of Fallout (excluding technological advances of course) because of the total lack of the Vietnam conflict.

The Vietnam War was one of the defining moments of the cultural dissension that occurred in the late 60's/early 70's. It was also caused by a backlash as the baby boomer generation reached maturity and rebelled against the "forced" sense of moral fortitude imposed on society during the 1950s (which Fallout would like us to presume did not end until the bombs dropped). Despite much nostalgia about "family values", during this period there was a lot of domestic repression, often bordering on abuse in some cases, where the problems and indecencies of a society were simply "not to be discussed in polite conversation".

The biggest visual cue that Fallout Universe did not experience the Vietnam War is simply it's preference to use 1950 era concepts of the future for it's aesthetics and it's "view" of how life and society were pre-war. It's obvious that in the timeline the bombs did NOT drop in 1950, but somehow that societal infrastructure maintained itself for close to 100 years (I forget the actual date of the war, but I believe it was mid to late 2000s), though due to the other extreme liberties in logic, this one is forgivable as well.

To my knowledge, there was no Vietnam War in the Fallout World. The timeline doesn't mention it (http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Timeline), the United States went under a rather major political change (unification of 50 states into 13 commonwealths) in 1969. If 'Nam did happen, which if it did it didn't play a large role in the FO Universe, it was probably radically different than the actual war.

Either France held onto Indochina or China "annexed" it like the U.S. "annexed" Canada IMO.

The Vietnam War was characterized by heavy worldwide comunist propaganda. Its almost proved today, that pacifist movements and anti-nuclear campaigns was, most of them without knowing, aided and finacied by URSS to disarm their west enemies... J.F. Kennedy warned all of us about Comunist infiltration propaganda inside our society and even our governements in various speechs like the Berlin ones and when talked about secrets movements, mainly talking about comunism secret west propaganda.
Some of that is even reported into Fallout game. For example near the Pentagon you can hear a comunist propaganda radio, inspired to ones you can hear during Korea and Vietnam wars...

The Vietnam war was under all aspects a military success by US, but comunist propaganda in '68-'69 was so high, and infiltrated in our society to mislead this point. At the end was a political defeat not military one. Still today few peoples, mainly who cares to read military history book about Vietnam war, know whats the truth. 2 main battle rappresent the success of Vietnam War, Hue Battle and Khe Shah !
Infact After Tet offensive North Vietcong Army was almost disbanded. They will require 8 years, and only when US retreated the last boat from there, to try again to invade the south, by breaking again a peace treaty....

So now, basically in the Fallout Universe, those comunist propaganda never affected American peoples that still hold fullness of their nationalism and military proudness for liberty of '50s and inspired to the Founding Fathers ones; the Flag with 13 stars is heavy inspired by the born of the USA and the post nuclear age reproduce the build up of USA by Founding Fathers facing theats of various nature. Awesome and much important all the reference to the Founding Fathers for example in Fallout 3 !

The Vietnam War in the Fallout universe could be just one of various succesfull warfare lead by US to contain comunist expansion and dont have this huge media impact like in the real world today.

Anyway you can find a parallel to the vietnam situation in the Alaska Battle. You can find all the feelings due to the war troubles and Korea and Vietnam comunist propaganda refering instead to Alaska and so on. Its very interesting and personally I love Operation Anchorage also for that. I really hope to see more about the Fallout age accross the Nuclear War ( maybe a pre-war RPG spy game in the pre-war Washington and when nuclear war happen and just right after, should be AWESOME. .
Fallout Is also a skilled envision of geopolitical anolysis, proved for example by similar ones made by Tom Clancy and so on.

On the other side you can find a critic to the US governement envision of a "perfect society"... infact the '50s was also the real American youth revolution and mainly a healthy one. Remember Happy Days, Grease or American Graffiti etc. inspired to the Elvis generation...

So I consider the Fallout Universe a well balanced critic of that time. After all Chris Avellone showed in that all his history skill.

I thinks that studying the Fallout History and universe, you can find also a disturbing warn for our future. For example we not avoided at all potential European Energy and raw materials crysis...( I'm Italian... ) Just look the situazion in Caucasus... The European commowealth is a parallel for what ECC could be at that time, the modern EU. Some parallel with today world situation are very accurate and we have not avoided at all an Energy crisis that will risk to destabilize China like in the Fallout universe.. The President Cheng is a result of China destabilization and after all rumors inside intelligence world theath about China aggressive expansion in today world..

I really pray that a nuclear war remain only for entertainement purposes, but anyway i Think that will have some important conflicts in the next 50 years, maybe just 10-20 when China will be a huge problem..

A hope is space industry develop, but to do that we need to keep going world industrial develop unitl he almost reach or threath ack of resources. We need all that workforce and motivation for full develop space mining industry and we can begin today to look out in the sky, not less like centurys ago we look far in the sea.


By
Dom G.

http://indipendenzaitaliana.blogspot.it

Which may be why in some circumstances, theres alot of throwbacks to the 1950s, because if you spoke out against the governement in the 50s, you were to be investigated by the FBI/or CIA for Communist affiliations

You made me spit water on my screen!

And wake up my girlfriend!

Thread closed: rules against politics and hoaxing.