Enclave. USG or not? : Fallout Series Discussion

» Sat May 12, 2012 6:14 am

Uh huh, yeah. When that "extra stuff" is an integeral part of the Vault then yeah it is. Were all the construction crews part of the Shadow Government too? Were the Enclave responsible for Vault 87? You know the Vault that was in direct communication with the Mariposa Military Base as they were being "pressured" for results by the Army at the base:

"We hope to have a breakthrough in this strain as the continual pressure from Vault-Tec and the military at Mariposa is becoming most bothersome."

Lets not forget what happened to those scientists at mariposa. If anything that should illustrate that just because you are in the government in some capacity, doesnt mean you're all on the same page nor that youve been clued in on what is happening around you.

I have never suggested that the enclave is a completely seperate entity from the government. Only that they do not represent the full and "advertized" government. They are PART of it they are also comprised of those that run the biggest complanies we see in fallout. Poseidon beiong another. It is how they get things regarding vaults and securing themsevles in shelters acomplished.

Actually we know they did because they were closing on Bejing when the war came. And afterwards is no time to waste resources. How big exactly is this supposed "stockpile" of military forces? Are they're bunkers full of tanks, troopers, and airfields all sat waiting up and down the entire West Coast in-case their is an invasion?

whether or not we would carry out an offensive in china after bombs dropped is moot.
but you even supposing they would just re-enforces that it is still a war, so it would still be good to be ready to fight.

I am not sure how big the stockpile would be. That woul d be for a cabinet of government officials to decide.

Why does it not? It is connected to NORAD and Strategic Air Command via PoseidoNet. It has a War Room. It's environmentally sealed and clearly has the capacity for long-term self-sufficiency on the scale of a Vault. The huge bulkhead doors with the Presidential Seal on them and the desk too, or did the Shadow Government in their hubris have those there from before the war for when they became President?

1) If they were trully the reg USG, having the presidential cabinet travel as little as possible and have the rest of what would become the enclcave come to them would be the most sensical thing to do. Not decideng to travel all the way across the country and then into international waters.

2)WTF would a presidential seal be doing on a companies oil rig if everyting was on the up and up?
and why is this companies oil rig fortified prior to the great war happening in such a way that so many people can live on it hundreds of years?

Bethesda gave an explaination that decades after the war the remnants of the government regrouped, they said decades not me; so why is it so inconceivable that after this regrouping they waited even longer - again - not being in the position to do jack-[censored]?

because i come from a positon that:
1) doesnt trust a robot that commits suicide because they realize they are malfuncioning and
2) beleives full and well the real government would have made contingecies that would allow them to do jack [censored]. .

» Sat May 12, 2012 11:40 am

Edit: I snapped and went on a rant, please ignore.

» Sat May 12, 2012 9:29 am

Oh for the Love of God why did you have to go an make this topic? There is no concrete proof one way or the other. All we have in the end is our opinions. We will be [censored]ing about this for several years to come or longer until we finally get concrete proof of this. Can't we just let this topic die? Seriously it has been debated to death for the last four years on these forums. Just let it go people!

Seriously if I had a dollar for everytime this has come up I would be a rich man. I can predict this topic in advance. It will be evlbastrd and The Enclave fighting it out for the most part with CannibalClub and a few other stopping in to add their two cents. Just like it has been for the last 20 or so Enclave related topics.

Because the enclave has so much mystery around them to speculate on (you could say they are.... shadowed.. with it?)

Because i like the echange of ideas.
I like trying to think of outcomes to questions i had not thought of before,
because its a discussion board, and all we wind up doing here is talking about how F3 ruined the franchise anyway. :tongue:

come on. its debate for the sake of it.
Of course no one is walking away victorious.

jump in eople, you know you want to.

» Sat May 12, 2012 2:14 pm

Lets not forget what happened tot hose scientists at mariposa. If anything that should illustrate that just because you are in the governemtn, doesnt mean you're all on the same page nor that youve been clued in on what is happening around you.

I have never suggested that the enclave is a completely seperate entity from the government. Only that they do not represent the full and "advertized" government. They are PART of it they are also comprised of those that run the biggest complanies we see in fallout. Poseidon beiong another. It is how they get things regarding vaults and securing themsevles in shelters acomplished.

If they are involved with aspects of the proper government, if they are just the governments amoral higher echelons who ensure that things like Vault 87 and Mariposa can happen why do they have their own shelter? Congress has it's own bunker, the Department of Defence has it's own bunker, all government departments do and then a motely crew of officials from an umbrella of different departments has it's own private shelter? That's just detrimental to the chain-of-command and organisation.

If you are in-fact suggesting that they weren't some secret seditionist movement that was trying to remove power from the "real" officials then all you are saying is that they are a legitimate government conspiracy. They people who get black ops funded and otherwise amoral decisions regarding government policy but still government officials acting in it's interests at-least.

1) If they were trully the reg USG, having the presidential cabinet travel as little as possible and have the rest of what would become the enclave come to them would be the most sensical thing to do. Not decideng to travel all the way across the country and then into international waters.

The US Government have had an entirely mobile, potential base of operations for CoG for decades. A few extra hours on a plane before the war are typically considered a worthy sacrifice for prolonged saftey afterwards. It's clear than that for the regrouping to have taken place on the Oil Rig that the President must have been there.

2)WTF would a presidential seal be doing on a companies oil rig if everyting was on the up and up?

Err... because the government bought it? Bought it and repurposed it for their own use? Bought it and provided installed a War Room, huge barracks and hydroponics facilities and turned it into a Vault in the ocean basically.

because i come from a positon that 1) doesnt trust a robot that commits suicide because they realize they are malfuncioning

And I come from the position that you can't fake decades of communications logs between who knows how many locations and then upload them onto a sentient computer without it realising, just to then trick it into thinking your on the up-and-up. Again. More needless and speculative details to make other pieces fit a different shaped hole.

2) beleives full and well the real government would hav made contingecies that would be able to do jack [censored]. IF THEY WERE.

Jesus christ they did. Aagin, Germantown is what real government's do in response to disasters. They set-up disaster relief, keep the peace, try and maintain order and rescue survivors. That is CoG, that is what a real, hell the real government would do IRL. Except it doesn't work like that because you can't stop people from just deserting, you can't keep getting new food supplies to these bases to keep people there, you can't stop people from dying of radiation posioning without decent supplies.

» Sat May 12, 2012 7:23 am

My two cents despite my best judgment is that no they aren't the Pre-War Government.

The two main theories on this forum have the Enclave forming after the event of the Great War. One is that they were a Shadow Organization of Government, Military and Business. The other has the Enclave forming out of a need to survive and circumstances, if I am not mistaken.