level up! do you think we need a different system? : V - Skyrim

» Tue Dec 29, 2009 5:56 am

I wouldn't mind small tweaks, but neither would I mind if it stayed the way it is.

» Tue Dec 29, 2009 4:15 am

Absolutely. Make the attribute gains be dynamic to reduce micromanaging to get that 5x multiplier. Like TESIII's GCD and TESIV's Realistic Leveling mods. Over 15,000 downloads can't be wrong!

I'd also like to see skills have Major and Minor attributes. In other words, your sword skill would depend primarily on strength, but would also increase more slowly) your endurance and agility as the skill is leveled up.

nvde mods also get thousands of downloads....and I think they're pretty weird.

But yeah, I agree with you.

» Tue Dec 29, 2009 12:26 am

As I have suggested in my Perk thread, there can be a pool of generic class perks that one could select from when making his custom class, so this is not a problem.

My concern here is that there are perks exclusive to pre-gened characters. That is all. As long as I can remake any pre-gened character with custom class, I'm happy with your system.

I do not understand, one can learn new tricks by inventing them for himself, i.e. reinventing the wheel, but it would be a lot easier for you if you learned the tricks from the master who knows them and knows how to teach them.
This is what has been done through out the Earth's or Nirn's history.

what about the barbarian class that (for RP reasons) chooses to shirk society. Is he to live his life unaware of how easy it could be to decapitate rats with a head chop, because he refuses to participate in a guild? Why can't I have a rogue mage? Saying its easier isn't a solution. But that's not really the issue. TES has always opposed accepted gaming mechanics in favor of a very robust "what you can do is governed by what you have done" system. Allowing people to buy abilities (thru quests or just straight gold) is IMO a step backward toward mainstream mechanics. Like I said, I like your system, but I worry. TES is already becoming mainsteam, at what point will we see an conversion to the XP system that some people seem to want.

There are two mind sets about this topic, one is for whom that like the sense of progression as they can go where that previously could not go, and one is for whom that want to be able to go wherever they like and whenever they apparently, we differ here.

yes you understand my point and, like I said, I just want people to be aware of the two 'schools' of thought here. Tho I do enjoy sight seeing, I believe the re-playability of Area based scaling outweights my urge to stroll any environment.

No, in Morrowind this was not as simple as keeping away from daedric shrines to keep safe, as some places like ash-lands and especially inside ghost fence were really dangerous places for low level characters.

I am aware of that. I was trying to point out how Morrowind was more similar to your Area based scaling. And contrast the two games as OB=PC scaling and MW=area scaling. If you like OB, you might prefer PC scaling, IF MW then prolly area based scaling.

That is an idea, but I would not replace the sense of progression that the level-up sessions give me with anything else, and those sessions can be more rewarding that just selecting a few attribute points as I have described in my first linked thread.

To me, a level up session popping up unexpectedly is fairly unimmersive. furthermore, people don't instantly 'Pop' up a level when they lift weights. Its only after days or weeks of work that they notice a change in tone or strength and sometimes only after contrasting their previous situation do they even realize they have changed at all (before and after pics). I think finding that that occasional brown bear that almost killed you last time was a piece of cake the 2nd time is sign of progress enough.

I know it, but IMHO if you want to convert a huge orc barbarian with calloused hands who till now was at home when wielding a huge maul over his head, into a sneaky thief, expert at picking locks, then it should be a task approaching impossible, at least really hard and time consuming.

You can start another character who is more appropriate for the sneaky thief role, like a agile Bosmer, and that's called re-playability, and that is why I suggested such character development system.

Some people grow attached to their characters and resist remaking. What I'm suggesting isn't going to discourage people from restarting, its more for the sake of eliminating arbitrary level caps. and after all, all things equal, your well developed dark elf warrior is no worse at magic casting than your brand new off the dice Dark elf spell caster at casting magic. Why should a noob learn faster than a seasoned warrior. (maj/min skill bonuses considered ofc) Furthermore, an orc should be less inclined to be a thief, since his Ag is initially lower and it requires more effort to get and keep it high. This means that strong orcs are stronger than strong bretons instead of every race is equally strong in the end since they all stop developing at 100 str. say an orc starts with 60 str and thru developing his skills gains ~50 str. thru superhuman effort he can still increase his str. over 100 but at the sacrifice of skills (that are much less time consuming to advance) he loses everything else. suppose his Ag is 40 and thru the same number of skill advances, gains ~50 Ag. he is more agile than a normal orc would be, but can't really aspire to be as agile as a mid-high level bosmer. And in spending time increasing his Ag, his str has atrophied (not entirely, all his work with str wouldn't disappear for many years and with minimal effort would stay quite high.) Again, this idea isn't to prevent restarting, its to prevent characters from ending up the same in the end regardless of starting race. And to prevent having Masters-of-all-trades. And to eliminate the necessity for arbitrary level caps.

A similar, but less frustrating solution, would be to say level advances become so slow that in order to go from 100 skill to 101 skill would require several hours of RL time focusing on that skill. (no atrophy in this system, because seeing your stats drop could be frustrating for many people)

» Tue Dec 29, 2009 2:18 am

I voted small tweaks, because I like the skill based levelling, but I always use mods to change it - GDC for Morrowind and Real Levelling for Oblivion get it just right IMO - your attributes go up depending upon which related skills go up, so there aren't any modifiers.

» Tue Dec 29, 2009 9:22 am

The +5 +5 +5 bonus was an absolute nightmare for a perfectionist like myself. I kept and paper and planned each level, it was such a waste of time. Just hated the idea of wasting points and bonuses.

» Tue Dec 29, 2009 12:45 pm

I like the idea of my attributes raising along side my skills. Just as long as they keep it so I can eventually max out everything if I put enough work in.

For instance, say I play most of the game using daggers as a rogue. After a while I should end up with high agility, strength and decent intelligence. Then I can go on and start using magic skills to eventually get even higher intelligence and willpower. That would be great because I would never have to worry about missing that +5. Instead I could play how I want safely knowing I can change that if I want too.

» Tue Dec 29, 2009 11:56 am

As long as I can power level I don't Care.

» Tue Dec 29, 2009 2:44 pm

EDIT-Ignore

» Tue Dec 29, 2009 3:56 am

I hope they have no leveling, or levels and your character progresses naturally though use however more balanced. As in if you don't use a skill it drops to it's base level over time.The higher the base level for your skills the less it drops. So a base level of 50 out of 100 would only drop 50 points when not in use.