NV LOD Essentials Pack : Fallout: New Vegas

» Tue Dec 29, 2009 8:35 pm

By popular demand and, after having a lengthy discussion about the complications, issues revolving around generating LOD, I've decided it might be for the best to build the "NV LOD Essentials Pack", sooner rather, then waiting until I needed it myself. (I was going to do this eventually.) :dance:

This Modders resource will be released, untested and, simply as a stepping stone to try to help others understand what is involved in the process. I will be counting on the community to help by telling me of errors you have received. Screenshots of error messages would be more than helpful.

My current progress,

I've gone through all of the Meshes and, Textures folders, deleting anything that I know for sure isn't related to LOD. I'm sure I've missed things that will be needed to complete LOD Generation. FNV uses assets from all of the FO3 DLC's. The Dev's have seemed to thrown any form of naming convention out the window while working on them so, there will be errors, missing files. I may have even missed some files that had the proper naming conventions while digging through the folders, looking for any files ending with lod!

I'm only human. :brokencomputer:

This is still untested and completely WIP but, heres a link, http://www.newvegasnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=36693

cev

» Tue Dec 29, 2009 8:46 pm

Thanks Cev, I look forward to this.

As it stands I have 3 world spaces that hold the different areas of my airport, and two of them will require that I put LOD-versions of the big architecture into the wasteland so that the player can see it as they approach. For example, the distillation towers from my oil refinery and the large oil tanks I'll want to put into the WastelandNV world space and generate LOD for those cells (or the entire world space if necessary). I'll also need to put those same LOD-towers into the other two adjoining world spaces as well. I'll use your pack to do this.

Much looking forward to it! :goodjob:

Cheers,

Miax

» Tue Dec 29, 2009 11:30 pm

Miax,

Once I finish, I would appreciate it if you could try to take the time to test. I haven't even begun to mod the game yet, I still haven't finished it. I'm working off of my FO3 experiences. If the community steps up and, helps me work on this resource, I will continue to update it. If not I'll end up only worrying about my own personal errors, we'er all doing different things after all.

I can't be expected to know every little nuance of the GECK, (I know you don't expect that of me but, some people seem to!) :facepalm:

just saying, I know I'm not perfect, I'm only trying to ease some of the tensions and, frustrations we run into.

cev

» Tue Dec 29, 2009 11:38 am

As it stands I have 3 world spaces that hold the different areas of my airport, and two of them will require that I put LOD-versions of the big architecture into the wasteland so that the player can see it as they approach.

You'll need to generate LOD for the entire worldspace, as far as I know you can't simply generate LOD for specific cells. As far as I can tell worldspace cells are completely intertwined and can't be manipulated on a small scale. Worldspaces deal with the big picture, not individual cells. Yes, you can add stuff to worldspace cells, you can change them up but, when it comes to LOD, you'll need to generate the entire worldspaces LOD.

cev

Edit: therefore adding anything to "WastelandNV" is most likely a bad idea! if you want to have proper LOD, that is!

» Tue Dec 29, 2009 9:38 am

I can't be expected to know every little nuance of the GECK, (I know you don't expect that of me but, some people seem to!) :facepalm:

just saying, I know I'm not perfect, I'm only trying to ease some of the tensions and, frustrations we run into.

Bah don' worry about that, no one here is a master of the GECK (NO ONE). Even the "elders" are strong in many areas and weak in others, and you will Never hear me chastise you for it - I find that rude and unhelpful when people do that. And if perfection was required, they would have shown me the door years ago.

You'll need to generate LOD for the entire worldspace, as far as I know you can't simply generate LOD for specific cells. As far as I can tell worldspace cells are completely intertwined and can't be manipulated on a small scale. Worldspaces deal with the big picture, not individual cells. Yes, you can add stuff to worldspace cells, you can change them up but, when it comes to LOD, you'll need to generate the entire worldspaces LOD.

cev

Edit: therefore adding anything to "WastelandNV" is most likely a bad idea! if you want to have proper LOD, that is!

Yep I knew I was facing the big one, which is exactly why I want to test it. I have a rig that is more than strong-enough to do the job, and something tells me the experience isn't going to be the same as it was with Fallout3, but we'll see. I'm wrapping-up the final work on the NVEdit manual and am itching to get to work on Skyhaven (I have to make a WIP thread!). NVEdit manual finishes first, I should be ready to start preparing for a test last next week - it will take me that long to find and place LOD objects for my bigger architecture anyway. I should be ready to burn one of my core's out by this time next weekend.

Cheers!

Miax

» Tue Dec 29, 2009 4:58 pm

So could I generate LOD just for the Strip, since it's its own worldspace apart from WastelandNV?

-gecko

» Tue Dec 29, 2009 8:08 am

So could I generate LOD just for the Strip, since it's its own worldspace apart from WastelandNV?

-gecko

Yes, I essentially did this in FO3 for many of the smaller worldspaces, to build my glass windows cells. Georgetown, Sewerd Sq, L'Enfant Plaza, Mason District and, Takoma Park. Duplicate the worldspace, rename it, use it for your new purposes, regenerate LOD. If I can find all of the necessary files or, you take the time to find the ones I've missed, it should go smoothly.

One of the problems with Generating LOD is that not all of the file naming conventions are consistent, without a little trial and, error there is no way of knowing if we have all needed files packed up properly.

When you run into an error, it means something is not packed up in it's appropriate directory. Meaning there is ether a LOD mesh missing or, a Source\Textures TGA out of place. You'll need to track down the missing files and, start the process from the beginning. You can't simply pick up from where the error hit you, unfortunately it's an all or, nothing process. :brokencomputer:

cev

» Tue Dec 29, 2009 3:54 pm

I've uploaded the first version of the http://www.newvegasnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=36693 It is still untested. I did however try to test it but, every time I duplicated a worldspace the GECK went belly up, with an instant CTD. Just another issue to look into! :brokencomputer:

I hope this helps and, if you find errors, No I should say when you find errors please send me screenshot of them and, I'll try to sort out the issues.

cev

» Tue Dec 29, 2009 2:49 pm

Any one feel like lending me a hand? I've tried repeatedly to duplicate some of the smaller worldspaces so I could try to test the LOD process out but, as soon as I hit duplicate, Instant GECK, CTD! :brokencomputer:

I don't know if this is simply a GECK issue or, something more sinister is going on.

Can we not duplicate worldspaces? I'm able to create new ones but, when I try to duplicate one I get hit in the nuts with a supersledge! :swear:

cev

» Tue Dec 29, 2009 8:58 pm

Any one feel like lending me a hand? I've tried repeatedly to duplicate some of the smaller worldspaces so I could try to test the LOD process out but, as soon as I hit duplicate, Instant GECK, CTD! :brokencomputer:

Just checked, I get the same thing

» Tue Dec 29, 2009 8:52 am

Just checked, I get the same thing

Damn! I was kind of hoping it was on my end. This will blow if I can't duplicate worldspaces, which will mean no "Glass windows cells" in NVInteriors. :banghead:

thanks for double checking this for me.

cev

» Tue Dec 29, 2009 11:19 am

Sorry to say me too. But I am investigating further.

» Tue Dec 29, 2009 7:28 pm

Sorry to say me too. But I am investigating further.

is this just another GECK bug, First we have the roombounds and, portals glitch, the improper Havok physics and now the worldspace bug. How on earth did the Dev's even finish this game with all these issues?

cev

» Tue Dec 29, 2009 4:07 pm

Oh simple... in not using this stripped down version we got here :whisper: .

I assume as the game the release of the public GECK was a bit rushed too.

» Tue Dec 29, 2009 9:06 am

Geer!

I help to fill Bethesda's, Obsidians coffers! By extending the life of there games! Why is it that they can't give me the proper tools to do so. The way I see it it's only in there favor!

cev

» Tue Dec 29, 2009 2:34 pm

As we have already found out in FO3 contains the GECK a groupware extension that allows several developers to work on one project this is one feature that was cut. The LIP file creation is missing too.

I assume the reason is not that Behesda doesn't like us it's licensing issues. They have to remove some functionality that they doesn't have right to distribute. Foxdata for lip files is such a example. Our problem is in this process sometimes real important things get bugged or are missing like debug messages or the display glitch (lights, portals) that we are experience know. I hope we get a update for the NV GECK it is really hard and complicated to make big mods with all this workarounds we have to use.

Starting NV for modding (with NVSE) and working with GECK needs several different Batch file configurations here at my PC which are sometimes completely screwed up by steams so called autoupdate 'feature'. FO3 was a lot friendlier to work with.

» Tue Dec 29, 2009 11:38 pm

I am in 100% agreement chuck, I think peeps (even modders) that get their games illegally are wrong for not supporting the franchise that makes all this possible! Nuff said.

There was a comment on your LOD pack by http://www.newvegasnexus.com/modules/members/index.php?id=851584 that was incredibly insightful, I had to quote him here:

IN VANILLA FONV not your mod, I noticed some major differences in the distant textures when I would use binoculars. Some where very detailed and others where not even close. even with LOD all the way up.

I did find this though...
http://www.ps3trophies.org/news/news-931-Interview--Josh-Sawyer-Talks-Fallout--New-Vegas.html

QUOTE
ps3trophies:From what we’ve seen so far, the engine looks untouched from a visual standpoint. Is there anything you’re trying to do to make New Vegas a better visual package from Fallout 3 or is it more of the “If it’s not broke, don’t fix it” mantra? I see we have blue skies now!

QUOTE
Josh: We did not want to delve too deeply into the rendering technology because of the relatively short development cycle. One element that we have changed is how the level of detail system works for distant objects. Specifically, they can now support material shaders, including emissives. We also implemented an "imposter" system that allows us to more convincingly represent distant buildings and effects. This was important for us because light pollution from casinos is such an important element of seeing Vegas from the desert.

http://www.gamespot.com/pc/rpg/falloutnewvegas/show_msgs.php?topic_id=m-1-56809754&pid=959559&page=1

QUOTE
Overgrowth found ways to avoid rendering entities from afar by making them look like "paintings".
Think pop up pictures of something far far away. It's not rendered in 3d making it use much less resources.

Imposters are what I'm talking about:

http://blog.wolfire.com/2010/10/Imposters

Read it up, you'll be surprised that not many developers do this to save resources, yet make long distance objects look great.
Imposters - Wolfire Games Blog Very informative and should help with your mod

Ummm, in a phrase, "WOW!". This is an evolutionary change for this engine where LOD is concerned, and may become the topic of great study. I need to learn this and see if its really possible for peeps like us - parts of it look pretty complex unless the GECK automates it somehow..