Without meaning to offend, your solutions seem to be just "let's compromise".

Compromise isn't always best. Sometimes we need a strong decision to be made. I apply this mainly to fast travel and level scaling.

Fast travel as it was in Oblivion is NOT the way to do it. You suggested having travel services on top of this, but in a world where you can already teleport anywhere anyway, what's the point? Not everyone can teleport everywhere - this should apply to the player too. If you "can't be bothered" walking all the way back from whatever location you just did a quest in, then work your way to the closest town and hop on the transport network. A system like that works. "Teleport everywhere" does not work, and makes it impossible to implement any reasonable transport system alongside it.


For level scaling, I say get rid. Completely. All creatures should exist in the world from the start - it makes no sense having daedra suddenly appear in the world when you hit level whatever. Some things you should just know better than to get in a scrap with until you're ready. At low level you have fights you can't win, at high level, well, you're high level for a reason. It means you're pretty tough. Fights should get easier. Of course, that doesn't mean tough enemies can't start spawning in groups though, so there can always be a challenge.

As regards quest markers, my preference would be to design quests to provide enough hints/clues/instructions to find an objective without a marker. Ideally some would be tougher than others to find. Additionally, the option to toggle-on 'general area' markers if really stuck, whilst immersion-killing for some, would be a god-send for many if not most.

what should happen is that the land should adopt a fallout 3 style leveling thing (more likely to be lower leveled, very unlikely to be significantly higher)for the wilderness but dungeons should adopt morrowinds system (if its skelletons, charge in- if its vampires- run for your life)

I didn't mind quest markers when you were given explicit directions to where you needed to go, e.g. the entrance to a dungeon or the house of an NPC, but I didn't like it when it would point you through the entire dungeon to where the item that had been lost for an age was.

It's a balancing act.

I mean, in the interest of realism, a lot of the suggestions in this thread would be good, but I've got a life and a family so I simply don't have 250 hours to throw into a game if 100 hours are going to be spent as shoe leather. On the other hand, the way that Oblivion dealt with objectives (look, there's the arrow that must represent the long lost sword of x that no one's seen in a thousand years!) did tip the balance too far in the "expediency" direction. I don't mind exploring and looking around for things, but I do mind looking for something that would need a 30 person search party with five corpse sniffing dogs and two psychics (unless you could hire that group in Skyrim).

As for level scaling. That is something that needs to be fixed. It's lazy and I can't imagine why someone would continue to be a highwayman if they happened to have some of the best equipment in the game and the ability to use it.

In that same vein, something else that needs adjusting is the mechanics of levelling. In a way, you're actually penalized for choosing a skill that's useful to your craft as a major skill. Because the "quality" of each individual level is determined by your minor skill performance, it's possible to actually become weaker relative to the world as you level up, if you've chosen your major skills "incorrectly". It seems odd that if you were to want a blade-based character to be strong in the endgame, you'll definitely want to avoid blade as a major skill. People should want to level, not fear it... or decide that you need to visit your accountant prior to each levelling point to make sure your minor skill portfolio is strong enough.

I completely agree: leveling needs a fix, though I don't know how they would do it.

Also let me clear up my idea as it seems some people aren't hearing me out with the 50/50 style enemy leveling.

Only CERTAIN monsters would scale with your level. A large portion of monsters would be set, but a select few of the stronger baddies would scale with you. Random Bandit Jim will still be level 3 but Daedra Lord will always be tougher than your current level. TBH a group of Daedra lords isnt as cool as fighting a stronger one. There is also a point where your level is irrelevant and you do enough damage to ignore the fact that Daedra Lords/Super Tough Baddies/Etc... are scaled and that seems to be the point everyone is talking about when they mean "kill anything I want." The enemies ARE always there, even the level scaled ones, but a select few are scaled to be tough.

The fast travel option: Yes I realize no one has to use anything, but Bethesda seems to build their game around the style of travel in the game. Fallout 3 didn't have that crazy of travel distance, despite having to travel all the way to Rivet City on the other side of the map before I had any exploration points there. I could see this being done in Skyrim due to its smaller size than Cyrodiil. Fast travel, as I've been saying, should be once a point is explored, you can now fast travel to it (the main thing being CITIES. The only things in Oblivion you didn't have to travel to in order to ft there). Also, for those not using fast travel, this idea is new: A return of the Silt Strider for more immersion. Instead of having to walk everywhere we could take one of these around towns or to other towns, but not always directly to our destination, sometimes a little ways away.

Final point I've been talking about:
The quest marker would be a general area. Think Bruma sized faded red circle or something. You have an idea as to where something is but not the exact spot. Even a larger point would do. The quest directions from the NPC would also aid you if something was said about "a tree that was burned out." Finding a location wouldn't be too much of an issue but you would still have to search a bit. Also, if Bethesda could, another compromise (adding to this) would be a toggle on/off for the location circle, but that would require quest directions to be pretty good.

Also, a quick tag on: making it easier to home decorate. Books were impossible to put onto shelves because at a point, things would just start flying everywhere.

I am playing Oblivion under a new light. (certain mods that deals with UI and level scaling and travel options.) I changed my mind now.

Markers are good. If they actually represent a certain knowledge.

If NPC knows the exact location, it can lead to the exact position. Otherwise no.

I don't think a circle is actually needed if directions are just a little bit better, from where the marker gets you. Let's call this semi-Morrowind style directions.

If an NPC is moving... No problem. We will catch him either on work or house or a tavern. It is no big deal we get there while he is on move. We would be waiting 5 minutes most or just come back a little later.

There could be cases without any marker, Morrowind style. But that doesn't need to be a huge percentage. It could be semi-Morrowind style, be %50, exact locations %15, full directions/no markers %15 or self figure out %20. Or just make sense with these types.

Fast Travel is good too. If it is Daggerfall style+Morrowind.

I want to be able to draw/queue my exact route in Daggerfall system, towns will be visited, which inn I will stay etc.. It should be animated(fast forward Indiana Jones style) so I can cancel it at a certain point, if applicable. No instant travel as in instant 1 second in map mode. Just look at Just Cause 2, their map is huge like 20+ times bigger than Oblivion and their fast travel system is an in game transport cutscene with map dots following, and even if you press skip(3 times!) it takes 5-50 times longer than Oblivion's(based on your computer it can be 1000 times longer, you get the idea.). This is the nice encouragement to not use it. Not to mention all other fast means of travel in that game.(cars, helicopters, jets, boats...)

Likely I will be using in-game transports but if it is too far out, why go all the way. Daggerfall style is as good as it gets with random encounters and foot/horse/carriage options.

I want being in wilderness feel like survival. Seek some shelter and heal yourself before going fast travel. I don't think this should be a part of role-play. It should be a part of gameplay.

Level scaling is utter evil.

Add slight variations to monsters, bandits and other content. Some wolves are skinny, some wolves are wounded. And there is one alpha male.

I wouldn't mind if there are other adventurers who progress similar to an adventurer PC. If they can make every NPC dynamic even better. A dynamic wold is better than any scaling. Introduce a food chain for example.

Make trainers more like actual tutorials, training opportunities. Giving advices and hints. I wouldn't mind a little hand-holding while we are actually in training mode.

There could be natural safe places, no zones needed. I mean there couldn't be a wolf pack attacking people in sight right in front of a city gate. City officials would be looking to that issue, maybe employing you to fix it or others. Powerful, challenging enemies will always be present in some specific locations, be it a natural placements or quest related.

There is only one problem which is Player becoming a god. There is a very simple way to deal with this issue.

So let's say you are an apprentice in blades. But you are not using it for a while which we might say you actually abandoned it. What happens when you can not apply your skills for a long time. What happens when you go to prison in Morrowind and Oblivion. Or like in real life. You forget your skills or at least you become not as efficient. They obviously don't fall under base skill value and rates are rather slow but this makes everything right, IMO.

What's with the long posts people? All they developers need to know is that it needs more COWBELL!

See what I mean? Short. Sweet. Simple. Like eggs and bacon on a Saturday morning.

I pretty much agree with everything here.
The want for the "circle" was due to semi-lackluster directions from Oblivion, and in part from the confusing ones from Morrowind. Your distribution sounds like it would work.

Haven't actually played Daggerfall. That travel option sounds pretty fun tbh.

The trainer idea is one I haven't seen before. That sounds like it would be pretty fun. I remember playing Oblivion thinking trainers meant actually training and was a little let down when I just talked to the guy and went up some levels.

Skill depletion sounds like it would work as well. Perhaps after a few days if your blade skill was at 50 and you didn't use it at all it goes down to 40 or something, or make it even more major. Like if you didn't use something for a little bit it slowly depleted but if you continued to not use it the depletion would be larger and larger but would stop at a certain point.

I would like more quests that involve player thought though. If I get a contract to go out and kill X guy in Y town, I don't want to know EXACTLY how to kill him (Dark Brotherhood Oblivion style). I want to watch him for a little bit, see his patterns, and maybe explore his house to find a trigger and a time that would make the mission a stealthy success. Maybe wait for him to walk into the alley on his way back home or wait for him to go out behind the tavern for a piss. Even if inside his house there were a few triggers like a broken bed, an oversized stuffed head hanging on a wall to drop onto him, a secret passage to wait in, etc... I would be able to pick and choose my location.

My thoughts:

1.) Fast travel.

• Keep the option for instant fast travel to places you have discovered, but add some more appealing alternative modes of transport, and apply a few slight limitations on the system.
  
  • Maybe restrict instant fast travel to a set of major waypoints, from which the player could use an alternate method of travelling to finish his journey.
    
  • Include a chance of "being attacked" while fast travelling, leading to a loss in health and maybe some gold you were carrying.
    
  • Include a risk of contracting disease while fast travelling.
    
  • Improve the mount system, add carriages and caravans, add boats and rafts, and other lore-friendly means of transport.

2.) Quest Marker.

• Modify the system so that you are led to a general search area rather than your precise destination.
  
• The size of this search area is determined by the amount of information you have.
  
  • If the quest giver is very specific, the radius of searching might be as small as 50-100 yards.
    
  • If the quest giver is vague or unhelpful, you might need to do some extra investigating around town before you even have a search radius on your map at all.
    
  • The nice thing about this system, apart from the fact that it makes each quest slightly more unique based on how you go abut finding information, is that it demands solid quest writing mechanics. The player can never magically know where something is; he has to be told how to find it, and whatever he is told is what he has to work with.
    
  • The result is that the quest marker is almost redundant; it becomes an auxiliary tool rather than a necessary crutch for the quest system.
  
  
• Include a more dynamic journal that updates with all relevant information, and allows for player notes.
  
• Add a slider to determine the effectiveness of this system.
  
  • If you set the slider to the lowest setting, the search radius will be as small as possible, making it easy to find your destination (almost as easy as Oblivion).
    
  • If you set it to the default level, you will not have too hard a time finding things in general, but some extra sleuthing will be required, and you will need to pay a bit more attention when receiving quests.
    
  • If you set the slider to the max level, you will have to be very perceptive, and investigate quite a bit before finding your destination.

3.) Level Scaling.

• No scaling outside the main quest, except perhaps occasional random loot (which should be scaled somewhat but not as much as in Oblivion).
  
  • The main quest should be scaled so that anyone can do it, and so that it is the most straightforward method of naturally leveling up your character.
    
  • A level 1 character should be able to complete the main quest, and it should be appropriately challenging and appropriately rewarding.
    
  • A level 40 player should not have too easy a time with the main quest, so it needs to be scaled to some extent. Though I think the level 40 player should have an advantage here, and should also get a reward appropriate for his level.
  
  
• Rather than scaling enemies across the map to the layer's level, there should be a system in place that stays constant throughout the game. It functions like so:
  
  • The closer one is to a city, the less threatened one will be by wild enemies (i.e. lower frequency of opponents, and lower average level of opponents). Conversely, if one is far away from civilization, one will find stronger enemies and in slightly greater numbers.
    
  • This can be achieved by a sort of "topographical overlay" on the map, that determines the effective danger level of a zone. The scale could range from 0 to 10, or any other arbitrary scale you want. Cities could be marked a 0 (no threat from wild enemies), lands just outside city walls could be a 1, and so on.
    
  • Only the deepest forests and caves would be marked 9 or 10, and those lands should only be relatively safe for very experienced players.
    
  • A level 1 player should be able to "safely" access about 20% of the map. A level 10 player should be able to "safely" access about 50% of the map. A level 20 player should be able to "safely" access about 75% of the map. A level 30 player should be able to "safely access about 90% of the map. A level 40 player should be able to "safely" access about 98% of the map. There should be a couple of special areas where even a maxed player has some trouble, but the rewards for braving these areas should be tremendous incentive for any player to work toward max stats.
    
  • There is technically nothing preventing a level 1 player from going anywhere on the map, he just has very low odds of survival in many areas. There could be ways around this however...
    
  • This system ensures that a player always has "enough" to explore, while being constantly exposed to new areas as he progresses. This encourages player development and simulates a more rewarding system of natural progression.
  
  
• Another good aspect of this system is that bandits and other human enemies will have relatively consistent equipment in each zone.
  
  • Right from the beginning, any bandit camp in, say, a 7th degree zone, based on the scale above, would have good loot... Maybe Ebony or Glass.
    
  • This would remain consistent throughout the entire game.
    
  • You wouldn't have good odds of beating these bandits until around level 20 though, so you either have to be very lucky or very skilled to obtain this quality of equipment much sooner than that.
    
  • This helps to maintain a sort of "order" of weapon quality that the player can access, while technically allowing opportunities for the player to bypass that order, all while preserving a more believable system for enemy strength and equipment quality.

These are the Cliff's Notes... If you want to read my in-depth ideas, check out my posts in the respective threads for these subjects.

Or the quest-giver could just give a general indication of what the NPC is wearing - this is also taking into account that the phantom engine running the game and the devs can actually make NPCs appear unique. Also, there could be a rough sketch of the NPC given to you at the start of the quest.

What if all shops had the appropriate type of armor for their location, but armor had progressive strength requirements to wear? Light Chain would need 12 strength where Heavy Plate Steel would need 78.