Potential minor faction spoilers, nothing serious though.

Another thread commented on the sad decline of the brotherhood (west coast BoS that is) and I had this thought.

The Brotherhood of Steel is a metaphor for reliance on Technology.

Think about it, they were the sole source of powered armor at one point, the only people with the biggest of the big guns.

But as time's worn on they've declined in power, even as civilizations rooted in the post-war wastes flourished.

The BoS originated with the US military at West-tek, NCR originated with one small town in the middle of the desert. The BoS has had their fortune steadily decline over time, while the NCR grew from a town to a region to an empire.
The NCR creates (the sharecropper farms, ect) the BoS re-appropriates.

The Brotherhood and the Enclave both represent, metaphorically, the fortunes and importance of the two bastions of prewar US pride and power: the Military and the Federal Government. The Enclave turned evil and actively destructive when they lost control, the brotherhood stood for reclaiming the past but gradually as the past has lost importance, they too are relegated to a minor role.

Not when you consider how the Eastern Brotherhood of Steel is currently flourishing. :shrug:

To be honest the entire game is a big warning against technology. Its a big reason why it was set in the 50s, right after the bombs were made and technology was in overdrive through war innovation. Its a big reason for the decline of community and decency today. Its a big red flag that screams "you may love all this shiny new stuff but its gonna be the death of you." This was stressed much more in the early games than these days because it's being marketed to more mainstream gamers with the intellect of mice...that have been bashed with hammers for about half an hour. I mean no offense to anyone except those who believe halo was the best game ever made and live to play round based fpses for the rest of their lives.

sorry but reading over this i just noticed "big red flag" beautiful unintentional pun

I don't know if the NV variation of BoS is supposed to be all that's left of them on the west coast or not, but if Mr. House's path is the canon ending..... yeah

But the East Coast version is thriving though the outcast BoS are really the only faction there that resemble the 'real' BoS. DC BoS are different enough to be considered an entirely different faction altogether

I don't think that the bos are a metafore for that, however I think they're (in NV)a metafore for just plain human stubboness. THe WBOS don't recruit, don't share, don't coperate because they've *always* done that, and even with death staring them in the face (I think even the Elder in NV sees that from his dialogue with Veronica).

A former boss once used the following to illustrate how "Company Policy" starts. You get 5 monkeys in a cage, and put a bunch of Bananas on an electric plate. The Monkeys soon learn not to go for the Bananas. You then rotate out one monkey, replacing it with another. The 4 remaining monkeys stop the new monkey from getting a shock. You then contiune to rotate out monkeys one by one until none of the original monkeys remain. When a monkey is rotated out the "older" monkeys continue to stop the new monkey going for the Bananas, even though none of the monkeys have ever see a monkey get zapped - so even if you turn off the electric plate, the bananas remain untouched. Thats where the WBOS is at the moment.


They arent. The War continues between the NCR and the WBOS to the west (although depending on your actions, there may be a truce in the Mojave)

I don't think the Brotherhood of Steel is a warning against the over reliance on technology. They are much more about the effects of close-mindedness and isolationism.

Look them back in the original Fallout, they were the strongest and most powerful faction in all of California (possibly the world). But by the time of Fallout 2, they are no longer the only ones around with advance technology and has been almost completely rendered obsolete. On the other hand, we have the New California Republic, originated as nothing but a small farming town and is now the biggest power in the wasteland. How did they accomplished this? Though trade and diplomacy with other communities. Just like the original Vault Dweller wrote in his memoirs, "Understand that survival requires that you work together, even with people you may not trust."

By refusing to accept outsiders and rejecting the voices of reform coming from within, the Brotherhood seeks to evolve but are held back by their traditions. For me it is only a matter of time before the East Coast Brotherhood becomes the only surviving chapter since they are the only ones that realized that they have to change if they want to survive in the long run.

I love the Brotherhood Of Steel its by far my favorite Faction in the Fallout Universe. I truly think that the West Coast BOS will decline and eventually go extinct not because of the NCR but because of their methods. The BOS of the West Coast believe in perserving technology but they want to be isolated and picking fights with everybody because they don't want them to abuse technology. That is the main reason why I think the West Coast BOS will go extinct.

The East Coast BOS, that version of the faction will be the main reason why the brotherhood lives on and will prosper. The morals for the East Coast brotherhood perserve technology but help the people out is the direction that the BOS should take.

I'm with you on that one. Woo! Go East Coast!... Brotherhood of Steel.

I think that the Brotherhood of Steel is going to have to change, forever, if they are to survive...

Mindsets like that of Owyn Lyons will become far more prevalent throughout the Brotherhood as their decline in power continues. More and more will rise up against the Elders who would resist these failing traditions, and replace them with those who have the best interests of the Brotherhood at heart. Men and women like Owyn Lyons, currently deemed a recluse, will become regaled as those who saw the future and saved the Brotherhood.

If the Brotherhood stands for anything, as a metaphor, it is the evil of inaction.

They represent the argument of 'The Greater Good' over the interests of the common man. They aren't -completely- lacking empathy for those who suffer without... but their mission, their goal... their Tradition dictates that they always put the good of the future of mankind over the needs of individual persons.

And so, they dwindle away... their power usurped.

Colonel: Exactly. And for many of them, that future will never come. They will never be satisfied that now is the time to open their vaults and start putting the tech into the hands of those that can actually use it, which would require them to trust outsiders. They've spent so long acquiring and guarding that those are the only things they know how to do.

(reposted from another thread in this forum)

A hundred years from "now", when civilization covers most of the North American continent once more, the heirs of Lyons and other "breakaway" chapters will still be trying to convince people that they aren't the same as the violent tech-hoarding hermits that have become boogeymen across a good part of the country, even though (as far as anyone knows) the last of the Old Brotherhood died out a generation or two ago. Those who could adapt ended their isolation and worked with, not against, the new societies growing up around them; those who could not holed up in their bunkers to the end, or finally ran into someone bigger and tougher.

The greatest foe the West Coast Brothers face is not the NCR, or the Enclave, or the Super Mutants, or even their own exiles. Their enemy is History, and unless they stop fighting it, it will plow them under and bury them in a grave of their own making.

Well, Elder Lyons is evidence enough that men can change their minds.

Still, you are right that there are a great many who won't.

I think the difference is, in my version, those who refuse to adapt are relegated to positions denying them of power. In some cases, civil war will erupt, and entire bunkers might be lost to history as the battle of the Old Guard versus the New Guard ensues. The weakened old guard will flail, in its dying breaths, attempting to take with it the whole of the Brotherhood.

"If we can't have it... neither can you..." kind of mentality.

But it will be too little, too late. Their insignificance to the wider world has already been assured... and their defeat will mark the turning point of the Brotherhood. No longer will they be bystanders, but provide the Nuclear Dark Ages with a much-needed Renaissance.

Men can, but the Elders... They're known for not even being able to agree if they want to take a wizz, never might which pot to take a wizz.