Couriers as a profession- and Mojave Express as a company- make sense if they can deliver packages reasonably quickly. Traditionally, "reasonably quickly" meant faster than a walking man can. Certainly faster than a Mojave Courier burdened by the weight of the package, weapons, armor, ammunition, food and water for the road etc. However, for one reason or another, we have seen no evidence of Couriers using any kind of motorized transportation, be it combustion engine or nuclear, and no evidence that horses or other riding animals survived the nuclear war. So, how does the Mojave Express deliver packages so efficiently?

I don't think it's about speed but security.
Couriers are efficient in surviving, and if I want a package delivered do I want to place my bet on whoever seems the safest, or whoever semes the fastest?
Yes, with the fast one I'd be able to have the packaged delivered in a day or so, that is if he/she wasn't robbed or killed on the way.
With a Courier on the other hand, I can rest more easily knowing my package will be delivered to Cannibal Jackson.

But you don't actually have any such security.

First, a courier is just one man, who can be sniped by a Jet-addicted Jackal while en route and there goes your message. If it's not about speed of delivery, you'd be better off passing your package along with a well-guarded caravan that is much less likely to get wiped out.

Second, when one sends a message, speed is oftentimes of the essence.

Third, there wouldn't be much market for a courier service that can only carry small, lightweight packages. Indeed, for the Courier, one of the packages he carried was an Eyebot, which is much more weight and bulk than one could reasonably carry through the wasteland.

I dont think Speed is the key either. Messages will find a way to be delivered quickly. A banged up old field phone or even morse code along telephone poles or dug in wires would do the trick faster than a man moving from a to b.

Take a look at the Crimson Caravan in Fallout New Vegas. They use brahmin to move stuff around just like merchants in Fallout 3.

Also if you played the Originals you would see the Crimson Caravan and other companies using carts made of old cars pulled by Brahmin. It's due to game engine limitations that this isn't shown in the new games.

As for needing engines for package delivery to be effective is kind of bull. It isn't about speed of delivery it's just the simple matter of getting the package there in the first place. People were sending things to one another before engines. Yeah they had horses but the Mojave Express isn't delivering things across the country. Just in the Mojave and when you look at a map it isn't that big of a place.

Also to note the NCR does have trains, so things being moved around in the NCR are done by trains and caravans.

1) The pony express was more or less the same. And that was highly efficiant for the time even if messages and couriers got lost. A well guarded caravan is ineffective costwise and its also a signal to others that there is prey, funds, information, whatever to be had here. A single guy with a bergen and a rifle really isnt going to attract too much attention to himself. A guy on a motorcycle or any means of motorized transportation really would. A caravan, much more so. And a single person with a modicum of fieldcraft can avoid the most inane rookie mistakes an avoid the most obvious tracks, traps and can camouflage properly.

2) Speed means nothing if you dont get the message across. If you want speed, fix some sort of messaging system. Morse code, telegraphs, phonelines.

3) There is a market for single parcel transportation by way of armed guard or covert services today. Why assume that such a market will not exist in the wasteland? Im not privy to the weight of an Eyebot but a well trained SAS / tactical unit or light infantry unit operator can hump 50-70 kilo loads and still remain operational over long distances and for a long time, on foot. Its not really rare.

The Pony Express was all about speed. It used horse riders, and a system of relays where the courier could get a fresh, well-rested horse to replace the tired ones. The whole idea of Pony Express was to reduce the time it took to deliver messages much faster than the traditional stagecoaches could.

As for attracting attention, a caravan would ALWAYS be much safer than a single traveller. Wildlife and raiders alike are far easier deterred or fought off by a well-armed group than by an individual; that's the whole idea of caravans. But when travelling alone, speed is safety. A guy on a horse or a motorcycle would zip past most dangers of the Fallout world, most importantly those posed by wildlife, and would be safer than a pedestrian from shooting ambushes (it's much harder to hit a fast-moving target, especially when the shooter doesn't expect to have to fire on a fast-moving target). Roadblocks and mines would still pose danger, but a rider with a modicum of fieldcraft can avoid rookie mistakes while on a motorcycle just as well as on foot.

Yup, because in the world of Fallout, there are working phone lines and telegraph cables all over the place.


The modern soldier's combat load is actually considered excessive, and it is. The RECOMMENDED combat load, one that would allow a soldier to remain decently mobile and to operate for a reasonable amount of time is 50 pounds (22kg). That load is routinely exceeded, with US Marines often forced to hump up to 125lbs (up to 56kg), but that comes at the cost of impairing operational performance, and everybody knows it. It really isn't the kind of load with which one could travel on foot at reasonable speed And keep in mind that this combat load is carried by a soldier who is delivered to the battlefield and evacuated from it by an aircraft or a vehicle.

-Sure. But one guy on a horse riding through dangerous lands infested with robbers, natural hazards, and injuns? There was plenty of danger and plenty of riders died or were robbed.


-No. A caravan would have to employ alot of weapons, and alot of people to reach a degree of safety. Again a caravan of two - three carts and a handfull of people are sitting ducks. Not "safer" than the guy who can traverse alone.

"Speed is safety"... Precisely where did you pick that up? I was light infantry and I was told "speed kills". Pretty much in any aspect of fieldcraft. Go to fast in your car, you miss the tell tale signs of civvies, of IED's, basic traffic safety... even with a defensive driving course in your backpack. Speed when firering your weapon? Not really either. From the days of the old west to fieldcraft of today its the guy who has the better aim, not the faster draw who ends up the killer. Even in cases where you have concealed carry and do a "http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hA-xIssgT-o" its still aim before speed. Speed when crossing land? Year, thats great. But if you miss that mine, or that IED youre dead. So if the terrain dictates it, you sacrifice speed long before you sacrifice anything else.

If you travel by bike or by car you have to use tracks. Flat ground. Chokepoints. Areas that are easy to ambush. Even dirtbikes and offroaders have to use chokepoints. On foot you avoid that entirely.



-You do realize precisely how "advanced" phonelines and telegraph cables are? its just a copper wire. Its basically the first thing layed when you dig in if you are in readyness area. You set up communications before you set up tents. Dont tell me that it wouldnt be done in the FO universe.


-Really? Link to source, pls?

-That load is routinely exceeded. So why do that if not to improve operational performance? I mean... you dont force a soldier to carry crap he or his unit doesnt need? A soldier doesnt carry a kitchen sink because he might need to shave? But he might carry LAWs and anti tank mines, "just in case". He might carry a LMG tripod if he is setting up an ambush. A .50 cal machinegun. I know. I have lugged one of those bastards around and the ammo alone is hell to carry.

"Operational performance" is a great many things. If your operation requires that you traverse areas with IEDs or minefields you carry a minesweeper or extra explosives. You send in engineeers. You have air units drop thermobaric devices to clear the field. But you still carry what you need with you. You dont carry excess crap you dont need.

YOUR (as in US) soldiers are airdropped. Your marines, army corps and pretty much everyone have the luxory of airlifting your troops in. And even when you get airdropped in, your units still have to traverse alot of terrain with a heavy load.

But My unit was lucky to get a ride by truck to a FOB and then we tabbed it from there. Most Light infantry and indeed special forces units in Europe do unless tasked to some highly specific tactical operation. And even then they still carry loads that exceed 50 kilogrammes because they have to be prepared for alot of time and a very diverse operating environment. Most troops in afghanistan still conduct their missions from FOB's, not by being airlifted or paradropped in... well. Most european troops anyway.

But really. It doesnt matter. The point is that a Courier service would very much be needed and it would very much be possible to have it be successfull.

Sure, but there was a reason they were riding horses rather than walking on their own two feet for stealth' sake, not least because on foot they would've been more vulnerable to all of the above, not less. so the Pony Express reference still defeats your own argument here.

Of course they'd be safer. That's why, again, they travel in caravans. That's why in dangerous areas people generally try to travel in groups.


I'm not talking about speed in firing your weapon. Or about reckless driving. I'm talking about travelling faster through a post-nuclear wasteland (as opposed to a 21st century urban war zone), where you are far more likely to be endangered by mutant wildlife than by anything else.

On foot you run a range of other risks.

If you recall Sunny Smiles' advice, she tells you to stick to the roads in order to minimize encounters with dangerous wildlife. That makes perfect sense: predators don't like flat ground where there's nowhere to hide in order to ambush their prey. Chokepoints? Sure, but you can usually see those as you approach. when approaching those. Being a Courier, chances are it's not your first trip along that road, and you know ahead where an ambush might be set up. Don't like the looks of the place? Take a detour through a safer road. No detour? Dismount, sneak around, check out the place before you ride through. You have more options than when travelling on foot, not less.

How much of it have we seen in actual use in the Fallout universe?

And how quickly can telegraph deliver an eyebot? A map? A folder with scientific research papers? A platinum chip?

Would Marine Corps Times suffice?

http://www.marinecorpstimes.com/news/2008/01/marine_lightenload_080122/
Of course, my own knowledge of it comes from my IDF service, but if you need a link, or a research paper, there's plenty out there for anyone willing to Google.

Yup. Now what part of the above applies to a courier? None whatsoever. When you travel through a danger-ridden wasteland for a living across a territory stretching from California to Utah and you're paid to carry stuff, you don't want to travel on foot if you can help it.

I would imagine they do and they don't.

The Crimson Caravan will tell you that because of the situation, they split their caravans up quite a bit so that when one gets hit, it's not such a loss. They EXPECT to get hit.
Mr. House tells you he hired 7 Couriers (only 6 though thanks to Ulysses). Why? Again, he expects some to get hit; he's trying to reduce the odds that someone gets the right one.


The post-apocalyptic world is a different setting from the one we know. You're talking from the perspective of our world. If you hire a courier in our world, you expect him to be fast, and if he loses your package or somehow dies, you might sue the company for damages. The post-apocalyptic world? "[censored] happens." That's the attitude.

What probably happens is, you've got people like Courier Six who make a living out of this line of work. Those who are cut out for it get rehired by the companies because the companies know that for whatever reason, that guy always makes the delivery and that guy comes back alive. Those that aren't cut out for it? They probably die. A lot of people will die, but eventually you have found some quality couriers.
Furthermore, I doubt they expect couriers to be "faster than the average man" given the setting, but rather faster than a caravan. A caravan has a lot of weight so it'll be slower AND it calls attention to itself. If raiders see a caravan, they know that if they hit it, they'll get something valuable. A courier? A courier is more discreet. It's just some guy in normal clothing, not calling any attention to himself. A courier is also faster than a caravan. If a caravan gets hit by raiders, they really have no choice but to fend them off. They can't just run because the brahmin is so weighed down that it'll never make it. A courier? A courier can run, if he's cut out for the job. One way he may be cut out for the job is to simply be faster than the raiders that seek to attack him.

Finally, how is he "weighed down with weapons and armor?" I dunno if you noticed, but in the cutscene at the start, the Courier is in the same outfit you'll find on the dead courier in Primm. Doc Mitchell also doesn't say "oh btw here's your minigun, Victor dug that out too," but rather you get a 9mm, boxing tape, some dynamite, a laser pistol or a razor.

Utlimately? You have a delivery service that's faster than a caravan, more discreet than a caravan or soldier and simply via survival of the fittest; knowing that the Mojave Express specifically seeks to employ people who can pull such jobs off one way or another, you're likely to get a quick, durable or otherwise lucky guy who'll get the job done.

Don't you know it's magic boxes. Couriers are the only ones who can operate them.

So much this.

A caravan will be much slower, limited to trails the animals can navigate, and while moderately defended will be a huge target for any kind of raiders or large wildlife.

A vehicle will be much faster, but will draw a huge amount of attention. The path one would take would also be restricted depending on the kind of vehicle, making ambushes much easier for raiders who will probably have eyes on you.

A courier can take paths that brahmin cant, move faster, and be much more discreet. The obvious downside is one person is easily killed, meaning a courier has to know the land, wildlife, and locals if he/she is to survive

-Well. Ill cop to that. Bad example.

-You only travel in groups if it makes you safer. In dangerous areas civillians and people without training like to travel in groups. A professional tactical unit dont really. You have a platoon sized group maximum and their travelling pattern wouldnt match those of a group of civillians at all.


A post nuclear wasteland that is ravaged, where the roads are crap, where you can get jumped any second by armed men and where the wildlife is vicious as hell. You cant "run over" a pack of Deathclaws. And to escape them or to escape cazadores youd have to do some pretty nifty defensive driving at high speed in uneven terrain or on crap roads. Add to that IEDs and mines. Nothanks. I think Ill prefer going it on foot.


-Sure. But you have a better chance of observing the risks going 4-6 kilometers an hour than doing 60-80 on a bumpy road.

Do you have patroll experience? Have you ever read an australian patrol/bush manual? Or picked up a book on guerilla warfare? Do you hunt? A path is nice and practical sure, it speeds your advance, sure, but paths are ripe with oppertunities for ambushes and traps. It gives you away before you are even there. I dont know about you, but I was taught that you generally avoid paths if you dont have a clue about your operating area or if you dont have it under controll. When you hunt from a static position you hunt near a path, a waterhole, somewhere you know the pray will pass. A path, a road is just that. A route where pray passes. Detours and checking out the areas are nice, but they take time. As an individual, you really would burn the time saved if you had to check every chokepoint, and recce every potential danger. And youd loose the advantage of driving as youd have to park and at least throw a camouflage net over the bike or car, then grab your weapon and then risk a solo recce and then double back... and hope your car is stil there. And then there is the fuel cost. Petrol was scarce before the war, I really dont think there is much left. Then ofcourse you can go for plant oil as the Boomers do, but you still have to carry the fuel, and you are burning money that you have to somehow earn back. You have repairs, etc. Lets say youre lucky and find a car thats fusion powered. Do you know how to fix it? How much power can be squeezed out of it? Can it traverse the terrain?

Again... call me flaggelantic but Id rather hump the load.

-None. But then we didnt see vendormats akin to what Old money showed us and we were told that it was very common. Could be an oversight. I know that most soldiers who trained with old field telephones and who actually found a pair would use them. I sure as hell would.

-Cute. However a telegraph can deliver a message, intel, gossip and most anything that can be typed out, next to instantainiously. Youd still need transportation... thats a given. I mean even in this day and age, we still have Trucks moving from one nation and state to another carrying goods. They dont deliver messages because... well... other forms of "transportation" is more viable and faster. Would you prefer getting your intel by caravan or by telegraph? Id rather like mine by telegraph. Its a bit faster.

-Sure. But flinging numbers without a source and then asking others go google for it is not only... "optimistic", its also not really how Im used to doing things . If I fling a number at someone and they ask for a source, I should have it and give it. Not get uppity about it. As for your IDF service time, grats. The IDF is a very capable army. I have alot of respect for both IDF and the state of Israel.


-Actually all of it does. Because above anything you want to stay alive. If you take halfarsed chances you dont live long. If I was paid to carry stuff in that world Id shun anything with an engine, and id shun paths, and company too. Sure there might not be that much wildlife on a road, but there would be raiders camping the road. As there is ingame. 5-6 vipers with guns at regular intervals. Roadblocks. And whilst I dont like the wildlife that much, guys with guns I like even less.

You might prefer a vehicule. Thats grand. I dont. I like living too much to take too many chances with it.

So you get ambushed by deathclaws, and you are on foot. What's your plan here? Not speed, I guess

-Stealth or seeing them from a distance thusly avoiding them alltogether. Im betting they show tracks and that they leave the remains of their pray around. So... Id be able to track them.

If all else fails, hammer the Stealthboy and run.

Aside from being less of a target to possible raider attack, a Courier also has the ability to hide from any dangers he/she might come across, traverse terrain that caravans otherwise might have to go around (cutting time), and of course since it's only themselves and whatever it is they're transporting, they don't have to take other's into consideration when it comes to fueling themselves up. In a caravan, one wouldn't only have to worry about themselves getting water, food, etc. but the others, and especially the animals hauling all that stuff the guards otherwise couldn't haul themselves. The time it takes to feed everyone, really cuts into the time that could otherwise be used to move on like a Courier can.