Question on the scale of daedra. : The Elder Scrolls Series Discussion

» Sat May 28, 2011 10:38 am

Well, I'm planning a drawing involving all the Daedra (as in Sheogorath, Mehrunes Dagon, Boethiah, etc...) and had a few questions.

Yes, I know some of these questions could be answered by reading every scrap you throw at me or asking google, but that's needlessly time consuming when I have you nerds at my disposal.

I'm sure daedra can change their form, size, and pretty much do whatever they want. But what are their natural states? As I'm to be drawing them together, I want their scale to be accurate. In shivering isles Sheogorath appeared average human size, as did Azura in morrowind, whereas Mehrune's Dagon was friggin' huge. Are those their natural sizes, or no?

Also, could you get me a list of the daedra, and perhaps some descriptions? And any other things I should know before doing this?

Also, what weapon would Boethiah be holding? Goldbrand? his daggerfall avatar appears to hold a daedric longsword, and his statues have axes....

» Sat May 28, 2011 12:15 am

http://www.imperial-library.info/book_daedra/ will give you lists and descriptions. Size is completely dependent on they're desire and purpose. Sheo and Azura didn't need to be anything other than human size, it was convenient for them, whereas Dagon was attacking a city, he naturally needed to take a form that was slightly larger...

» Fri May 27, 2011 9:16 pm

Also, what weapon would Boethiah be holding? Goldbrand? his daggerfall avatar appears to hold a daedric longsword, and his statues have axes....

I think that Goldbrand would make sense and have a distinctive flare over the large battle axes he's depicted as holding in statues of him. Even though Boethiah has given Goldbrand away a few times, it always seems to come back to him...

» Fri May 27, 2011 6:54 pm

sorry but im not at your disposal
if i was you i would try asking google :frog:

» Fri May 27, 2011 6:42 pm

Goldbrand is the weapon Boethiah gives to people who serve. The axe is his iconic weapon.

Deviant art has some excellent deviations of our favorite dam dog, I don't know who drew these, but they must have CHIM; http://badhead-gadroon.deviantart.com/gallery/#Tes-and-Morrowind-

Well, in Oblivion Dagon was friggin huge, because he needed to fit into the massive evil monster mold. In Battlespire, Dagon is probably the same size as Sauron (as seen in the prologue), just a bit bulkier.

That said, Daedra lords don't have natural states of form. They change their shape to whatever end they need, or in correspondence to whoever is witness. So, you've got tons of poetic license to do whatever you want.

» Sat May 28, 2011 6:35 am

The actual scope of their size, shape, or form is probably too much for a mortal to process, but they do like to appear in a relative consistent manner. Seriously, if Azura wanted to grow larger by just saying "Inyuk-chuk," she's quite capable of doing so.

It's probably like the Q on Star Trek, except without the omnipotence.

» Fri May 27, 2011 10:47 pm

I do wonder, however, if at least some of the Daedra (probably all of them), have a maximum size "giant form" as described in the Sermons. Between talk of Vivec "practicing his giant size" and the Hammer of Stendarr on display in Mournhold's Museum of Artifacts, I can't help but think that "gods" (et-ada) are pretty large when they walk the mundus "fully manifested."

But as to the OPs question, there really is no precedent. You'll just have to guess based upon their portrayals. For example, I don't expect either Azura or Boethiah to be larger than human. Indeed, I kind of see Boethiah as a small man (good with the axes, but also cagey, wirey, able to fig into tight places as befits a plotter, rather than a full-out warrior. Or is it a she? I can never remember.). Molag Bal, however, I see as a seven-foot monstrosity next to the others at a "human" scale.

» Fri May 27, 2011 9:51 pm

I can't help but think that "gods" (et-ada) are pretty large when they walk the mundus "fully manifested."

Tiss'not a coincidence.

Long ago the Chief of the Gods had been killed by Elven giants, and they ripped out Shor's Heart and used it as a standard to strike fear into the Nords - http://www.imperial-library.info/obbooks/five_songs_wulfharth.shtml

I now advanced quickly to the far end of the room, giving a cheerful salute to the ranks of mechanical soldiers who had appeared so menacing only moments before. I smiled with triumph as the light swept back the darkness of centuries to reveal the giant effigy of a Dwarven king standing on a raised dais, his metal hand clutching his rod of office.- http://www.imperial-library.info/mwbooks/ruinsofkemelze.shtml

Dwemer -- literally, 'the Deep, or Deep-Counseled or Secretive People' -- are the fabled lost Dwarven race whose ruins and splendid artifacts are scattered across Tamriel. Elves use the term 'Dwemer,' connoting variously 'deep-delving,' 'profound,' and 'close-counseled'; Imperial usage is 'Dwarven,' derived in fable from the affectionate regard of the Giant races for their 'little' Dwemer friends. - http://www.imperial-library.info/savant/index.shtml

Characteristic human logic -- Why would any self-respecting Mer refer to himself as a "dwarf", even if it were a name given by the blessed Earthbones? Obsessed with anatomy they are -- it does not occur to them that stature may refer to things outside of the physical. - http://www.imperial-library.info/pge/hammerfell.shtml

And of the Giants we speak little, even less to strangers, for their history is hidden in long loud power-shouts. - http://www.imperial-library.info/obscure_text/aldudagga.shtml

» Sat May 28, 2011 5:20 am

And adding to what was said, what happens to the land where giants fought?

It burns... (Warp in the West)
It sinks... (Anuad)
It creates scars in the land... (3rd Pocket Guide to the Empire, Skyrim)

» Fri May 27, 2011 9:50 pm

It's not just fighting. Walking it is bad enough already.

He found a span of badlands to practice his giant-form. He made of his feet a less dense material than the divine to keep from falling waist-deep into the earth. - http://www.imperial-library.info/mwbooks/lessons.shtml

Vivec lay with Molag Bal for eighty days and eight, though headless. In that time, the Prince placed the warrior-poet's feet back and filled them with the blood of Daedra. In this way Vivec's giant-form remained forever harmless to good earth. - http://www.imperial-library.info/mwbooks/lessons.shtml

Dwemeri high priest Kagrenac then revealed that which he had built in the image of Vivec. It was a walking star, which burnt the armies of the Triune and destroyed the heartland of Veloth, creating the Inner Sea.

Each of the aspects of the ALMSIVI then rose up together, combining as one, and showed the world the sixth path. Ayem took from the star its fire, Seht took from it its mystery, and Vehk took from it its feet, which had been constructed before the gift of Molag Bal and destroyed in the manner of truth: by a great hammering. When the soul of the Dwemer could walk no more, they were removed from this world. - http://www.imperial-library.info/mwbooks/lessons.shtml

Suppose these are related

The Jills did not have their full powers; rather, I should say, all the mundex spirits had every power at every time amendment at every ordering, which is to say none of them could ever fully express; our world was young and so were its architect gods.

The outcome of the Convention was to leave the terrestrial sphere in their excess, for its own good, but that it should last after their departure as in the semblance of the Ada-mantia. Mundus was given its second Tower, the Red, whose First Stone was the Heart of the World, "as in the image." - http://www.imperial-library.info/obscure_text/nu-hatta_nu-mantia.shtml

Most left when Magic did. Others sacrificed themselves into other forms so that they might Stay (the Ehlnofey). - http://www.imperial-library.info/obbooks/before_the_ages_of_man.shtml

Mankar too.

Once you walk in the Mythic it surrenders its power to you. Myth is nothing more than first wants. Uhokerrable truth. Ponder this while searching for the fourth key. - http://www.imperial-library.info/obbooks/mythic_dawn_commentaries.shtml

» Sat May 28, 2011 10:12 am

It's not just fighting. Walking it is bad enough already.

He found a span of badlands to practice his giant-form. He made of his feet a less dense material than the divine to keep from falling waist-deep into the earth. - http://www.imperial-library.info/mwbooks/lessons.shtml

Vivec lay with Molag Bal for eighty days and eight, though headless. In that time, the Prince placed the warrior-poet's feet back and filled them with the blood of Daedra. In this way Vivec's giant-form remained forever harmless to good earth. - http://www.imperial-library.info/mwbooks/lessons.shtml

Dwemeri high priest Kagrenac then revealed that which he had built in the image of Vivec. It was a walking star, which burnt the armies of the Triune and destroyed the heartland of Veloth, creating the Inner Sea.

Each of the aspects of the ALMSIVI then rose up together, combining as one, and showed the world the sixth path. Ayem took from the star its fire, Seht took from it its mystery, and Vehk took from it its feet, which had been constructed before the gift of Molag Bal and destroyed in the manner of truth: by a great hammering. When the soul of the Dwemer could walk no more, they were removed from this world. - http://www.imperial-library.info/mwbooks/lessons.shtml

Yeah, I kinda already knew that from the Japanese.

Suppose these are related

The Jills did not have their full powers; rather, I should say, all the mundex spirits had every power at every time amendment at every ordering, which is to say none of them could ever fully express; our world was young and so were its architect gods.

The outcome of the Convention was to leave the terrestrial sphere in their excess, for its own good, but that it should last after their departure as in the semblance of the Ada-mantia. Mundus was given its second Tower, the Red, whose First Stone was the Heart of the World, "as in the image." - http://www.imperial-library.info/obscure_text/nu-hatta_nu-mantia.shtml

Most left when Magic did. Others sacrificed themselves into other forms so that they might Stay (the Ehlnofey). - http://www.imperial-library.info/obbooks/before_the_ages_of_man.shtml

Mankar too.

Once you walk in the Mythic it surrenders its power to you. Myth is nothing more than first wants. Uhokerrable truth. Ponder this while searching for the fourth key. - http://www.imperial-library.info/obbooks/mythic_dawn_commentaries.shtml

Related? Straight up relevant. So, where I'm getting at that rather than not just causing untold physical devastation because you're big, but each giant got control of everything including time. But, too many working it out and eventually the whole thing will collapse?

[censored], is there a picture of the Walking Star?

» Sat May 28, 2011 2:22 am

Yeah, I kinda already knew that from the Japanese.

I don't get it...

» Sat May 28, 2011 9:12 am

[censored], is there a picture of the Walking Star?

http://www.imperial-library.info/mwbooks/divine_metaphysics.shtml

Star = God.

I don't get it...

http://www.gamesas.com/bgsforums/index.php?showtopic=602448&st=40&p=8809302&hl=shalk%20%20vivec&#entry8809302

» Sat May 28, 2011 7:17 am

http://www.imperial-library.info/mwbooks/divine_metaphysics.shtml

Star = God.

Yeah, I got the second part. [censored], Walk-Brass.

http://www.gamesas.com/bgsforums/index.php?showtopic=602448&st=40&p=8809302&hl=shalk%20%20vivec&#entry8809302

Uh, no. It goes way beyond that post.

» Fri May 27, 2011 10:11 pm

I do wonder, however, if at least some of the Daedra (probably all of them), have a maximum size "giant form" as described in the Sermons. Between talk of Vivec "practicing his giant size" and the Hammer of Stendarr on display in Mournhold's Museum of Artifacts, I can't help but think that "gods" (et-ada) are pretty large when they walk the mundus "fully manifested."

I imagine they must have limits depending on how much...something they have available to them.