Skyrim lore : V

» Sun Jan 10, 2010 9:01 am

Recently I've started reading some of the lore about Skyrim and I've learned a lot I didn't know before. For those eager to know as well; here are some links from UESP: http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Pocket_Guide_to_the_Empire,_1st_Edition/Skyrim http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Pocket_Guide_to_the_Empire,_3rd_Edition/Skyrim. Apparently, if I understand correctly, these pocket guides are only achievable if you buy the Collector's Edition of Oblivion or Redguard (I think).

There's some especially useful things to learn from this... that I have thought about a lot:

- Ice wraiths are mentioned in the 1st edition. A possible monster to be seen.

- The land of Skyrim was originally inhabited by "snow elves", (http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Falmer). They should be dead, but it's possible some still exist in ancient icy caves. Some people think they should look like Rieklings in Bloodmoon; in any case, they are/were elvish warriors with an "icy" appearence. This gives a new possibility... perhaps you will encounter ancient ruins of these very ancient elves in Skyrim? Ruins that have been forgotten or hidden. This would be absolutely awesome, I think!
In the pocket guide 1st edition, it says:

Spoiler

"In most of Skyrim, however, this defensive posture was deemed unnecessary by the mid-first era, and most cities and towns today lie on the valley floors, in some cases still overlooked by the picturesque ruins of the earlier settlement."

This could suggest that there still are ruins of these snow elves in Skyrim.

- Fun fact is that the Nords were responsible for the establishment of all of mankind, and therefore the Empire, in Tamriel. They were the first men, and they originated from a very icy island called Atmora, north of Skyrim. Some Nords stayed there, while others traveled to Skyrim. Perhaps an expansion pack can include traveling to ancient Atmora... the true origin of all men in Tamriel?

- Here comes my biggest theory, about the Dragonborn and the main story based on the lore. Read this quote from the pocket guide 3rd edition:

Spoiler

"In the third era, if Cyrodiil has been the heart of the Empire, Skyrim has been its strong arm. The greatest threat to the Empire's unity occurred in the 120th year, when the so-called Wolf Queen of Solitude, Potema, aunt of the Empress Kintyra, launched a rebellion that became a bloody civil war. Though it was eventually quelled, the repercussions are evident to this day. There is a strong underground movement called the H?rme that believes Potema and her deposed son Uriel III to be the last of Tiber Septim's true blood and under that principle lead raids against Imperial interests in the province."

This quote from the pocket guide 1st can also be read... in conjuction with the other:

Spoiler

"It is fortunate for Skyrim and the Septim Empire that the people of the Old Holds have preserved the traditions of their forefathers. Skyrim has long been dormant, slumbering through the millenia while upstart conquerors bestrode the Arena of Tamriel. But now, a son of Skyrim once again holds the world's destiny in his hands. If Skyrim is to awake, its rebirth will be led by these true Nords who remain its best hope for the future."

Discuss

And post more interesting stuff you know about the lore that can possibly influence Skyrim!

» Sun Jan 10, 2010 8:08 am

Atmora is thought to now be uninhabitable.

» Sun Jan 10, 2010 5:56 am

Atmora is thought to now be uninhabitable.

Maybe. Maybe not. The Nords lived there for a long time before, only the strongest and most powerful could survive. Those who decided to stay in Atmora must have been well suited to live there.
Interesting enough, Tiber Septim was even born in Atmora.
I think Atmora could have some very very ancient dungeons, caverns, or fortresses. Still, I think people would live there. People can live in the most harsh places... they adapt themselves.

» Sun Jan 10, 2010 6:03 am

Atmora is thought to now be uninhabitable.

How big is Atmora? Anything else in the Sea of Ghosts (ie north)?

» Sun Jan 10, 2010 3:46 am

Maybe. Maybe not. The Nords lived there for a long time before, only the strongest and most powerful could survive. Those who decided to stay in Atmora must have been well suited to live there.
Interesting enough, Tiber Septim was even born in Atmora.
I think Atmora could have some very very ancient dungeons, caverns, or fortresses. Still, I think people would live there. People can live in the most harsh places... they adapt themselves.

http://www.imperial-library.info/content/pocket-guide-empire-third-edition-atmora.

The last ships from Atmora arrive in Tamriel. After this event, Atmora is reported uninhabitable.Source: Pocket Guide to the Empire (3rd Edition): Skyrim.

» Sun Jan 10, 2010 2:46 am

How big is Atmora? Anything else in the Sea of Ghosts (ie north)?

I don't believe there is any information on the landmass of Atmora.

» Sun Jan 10, 2010 3:02 pm

The H?rme might be involved.

The Nords did not father mankind. The Nedes were present long before the Nords came. Kurt Khulmann and Michael Kirkbride called the "out of Atmora" theory Imperial, historical revisionism. Tiber wanted cohesion amongst mankind for a war with the Aldmeri Dominion. He didn't need to go to war with them, thanks to Numidium, but those lies survived.

Atmora is an ideal. It doesn't exist in the physical world. It doesn't have a size.

» Sun Jan 10, 2010 10:50 am

How big is Atmora? Anything else in the Sea of Ghosts (ie north)?

Here's a map of Nirn... it shows Atmora, but it isn't made by Bethesda. http://downloads.egg-of-time.us/images/maps/nirn_edz.jpg

Supposedly, there is another island between Atmora and Skyrim too - Roscrea. Read about it here: http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Roscrea

» Sun Jan 10, 2010 2:11 am

Here's a map of Nirn... it shows Atmora, but it isn't made by Bethesda. http://downloads.egg-of-time.us/images/maps/nirn_edz.jpg

Supposedly, there is another island between Atmora and Skyrim too - Roscrea. Read about it here: http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Roscrea

The map you provide has Roscrea in between Pyandonea and Black Marsh.

» Sun Jan 10, 2010 9:22 am

The H?rme might be involved.

The Nords did not father mankind. The Nedes were present long before the Nords came. Kurt Khulmann and Michael Kirkbride called the "out of Atmora" theory Imperial, historical revisionism. Tiber wanted cohesion amongst mankind for a war with the Aldmeri Dominion. He didn't need to go to war with them, thanks to Numidium, but those lies survived.

Atmora is an ideal. It doesn't exist in the physical world. It doesn't have a size.

Apparently, according to some texts, the Nords did father mankind. I just read somewhere else now that that may not be the case. Some sources seem to claim it does, while others doesn't. It's confusing. Maybe the Nords fathered some of men... like Bretons.

@Bittergreen smoker:
Lol, good point. Didn't even notice that. Obviously one source says something, while the other says something else. Not really sure who to believe. Uesp is a wiki, and that nirn map is unofficial as well. Very confusing.

» Sun Jan 10, 2010 11:05 am

Atmora is an ideal. It doesn't exist in the physical world. It doesn't have a size.

What leads you to believe this?

I'm not saying you're wrong but if you're right I missed something.

» Sun Jan 10, 2010 10:55 am

Apparently, according to some texts, the Nords did father mankind. I just read somewhere else now that that may not be the case. Some sources seem to claim it does, while others doesn't. It's confusing. Maybe the Nords fathered some of men... like Bretons.

Bretons are Nedes who've been dominated by the Nords and the Altmer.

The beginning of the Nord race is confused. The Song of Return is an homage to their Tamriel origin. The tradition is not that Nords began in Atmora, as Atmorans, rather they settled Atmora, then returned to Skyrim when it "got too cold."

@bittergreen: it's as tangible as Altmora/ Aldmeris. I'm saying it's real, but not physical.

» Sun Jan 10, 2010 4:14 am

I don't believe there is any information on the landmass of Atmora.

There is, actually I believe. A whole paragraph for it in the 3rd edition pocket guide. There are some other scattered information, but this is the main "official" information thing I believe.

Here, I quote:

Spoiler

For hundreds of years in the Merethic Era, raiders crossed the Sea of Ghosts to invade Tamriel from the frozen lands of Atmora, becoming after generations of living in our land the Nords, Cyrodiils, and Bretons of today. The last invasion – if that is the word for two ships, largely laden with corpses, begging to make port – occurred in the 68th year of the First Era. The descriptions of the land these raiders had left changes radically over the years, leaving many to believe that it was gradually dying, smothered by frost. Expeditions to Atmora in modern times describe a place of permanent winter, with little life and no sign of human habitation. Whatever population did not succeed in fleeing to Tamriel doubtless succumbed to the ever-worsening climate many centuries ago.
Even before the frost fall, Atmora was apparently not a temperate place. The early Nedic peoples who came from Atmora were hunters with no knowledge of agriculture. A land where every denizen was a predator doubtless insured that only the most brutal and savage survived. It is easy to see how these traits passed the raider men and down to the nature of the Arena of Tamriel.

» Sun Jan 10, 2010 11:18 am

There is, actually I believe. A whole paragraph for it in the 3rd edition pocket guide. There are some other scattered information, but this is the main "official" information thing I believe.

Here, I quote:

Spoiler

For hundreds of years in the Merethic Era, raiders crossed the Sea of Ghosts to invade Tamriel from the frozen lands of Atmora, becoming after generations of living in our land the Nords, Cyrodiils, and Bretons of today. The last invasion – if that is the word for two ships, largely laden with corpses, begging to make port – occurred in the 68th year of the First Era. The descriptions of the land these raiders had left changes radically over the years, leaving many to believe that it was gradually dying, smothered by frost. Expeditions to Atmora in modern times describe a place of permanent winter, with little life and no sign of human habitation. Whatever population did not succeed in fleeing to Tamriel doubtless succumbed to the ever-worsening climate many centuries ago.
Even before the frost fall, Atmora was apparently not a temperate place. The early Nedic peoples who came from Atmora were hunters with no knowledge of agriculture. A land where every denizen was a predator doubtless insured that only the most brutal and savage survived. It is easy to see how these traits passed the raider men and down to the nature of the Arena of Tamriel.

That gives no information on the possible size of the continent.

» Sun Jan 10, 2010 10:47 am

On a related note, http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Dragons There seems to be a lot of rumors and theories that the dragons may still exist but they've never been verified. Personally I think they've been asleep for hundreds of years, perhaps atop the inhospitable peaks of Skyrim or in secluded lairs.

» Sun Jan 10, 2010 6:20 am

@bittergreen: it's as tangible as Altmora/ Aldmeris. I'm saying it's real, but not physical.

I think Atmora is as physical and real as Tamriel and Akavir.

Am I not grasping what you mean by physical? I'm saying even though you might regret it, one could sail to Atmora and set foot on its surface.

» Sun Jan 10, 2010 9:55 am

That gives no information on the possible size of the continent.

Maybe not on the size, I didn't say that. But it does give some information about the landmass/continent/island itself.
The size is unknown, and not very relevant imo. The size of a land hasn't really mattered in either Oblivion or Morrowind. What's most interesting is that Atmora is very connected to Skyrim.

» Sun Jan 10, 2010 8:32 am

But it does give some information about the landmass/continent/island itself.
The size is unknown, and not very relevant imo. The size of a land hasn't really mattered in either Oblivion or Morrowind. What's most interesting is that Atmora is very connected to Skyrim.

I agree.

Hel Borne asked how big it was I was answering his question.

edit: And I'd assume that Roscrea would be north of Tamriel, not south. IMO.

» Sun Jan 10, 2010 2:09 pm

I agree.

Hel Borne asked how big it was I was answering his question.

edit: And I'd assume that Roscrea would be north of Tamriel, not south. IMO.

Yes I assume that too. The 3rd edition of the pocket guide says:

Spoiler

It has sought to expand its influence further by annexing several former Imperial fiefs, such as the island of Roscrea, ruled directly by the Emperor since Uriel V conquered it in the 271st year. It has begun sponsoring exploratory missions even farther from the mainland into the misty waters of the Sea of Ghosts.

The germans who made the map must have made a mistake, which can happen easily

» Sun Jan 10, 2010 1:35 pm

hlvr if your interested check out http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1152130-the-story-behind-skyrim-v20/ and the other posts in that thread.

There's a lot there to read but it's my take on the lore of Skyrim that I read, and I read a lot.

And http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1150869-the-story-behind-skyrim/ about half way down explains how the Falmer are gone. (disregard the theory though the first link updated.) Basically the Falmer were driven out of Skyrim and eventually defeated in Solstheim, the remaining falmer mixed into other mer races.

» Sun Jan 10, 2010 2:37 am

hlvr if your interested check out http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1152130-the-story-behind-skyrim-v20/ and the other posts in that thread.

There's a lot there to read but it's my take on the lore of Skyrim that I read, and I read a lot.

And http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1150869-the-story-behind-skyrim/ about half way down explains how the Falmer are gone. (disregard the theory though the first link updated.) Basically the Falmer were driven out of Skyrim and eventually defeated in Solstheim, the remaining falmer mixed into other mer races.

That is one big thread, very interesting. I agree with some things you stated there. I didn't read it all, but I skimmed through it. Thanks for the link, I must have missed this one before