Is it just me, or should the undead be a little more difficult to kill. I mean let's face it, the undead are a pretty nasty following of beasties in the Elder Scrolls Universe, that and Necromancers (who are more like Necrophiliacs) use them as their dirty do-ers. They were lead by Manimarco, the evilest sorcerer known to mankind (or just the Mage's Guild, I don't know my ES lore very well behind the scenes), and his following were some of the easiest group of pansies to defeat, primarily because their following - the Undead - were so easy to overcome.

Ghosts were a joke (except in that one quest with that dude and his house in anvil, I think they were placed well in there, and it was interesting to see that quest unfold, albeit rather lamely - but hey, who's criticizing the poor bloke for not wanting to hang around a bunch of poltergeist?). Wraiths actually posed some threat with their faster striking/ability to wield blades, but were still easily handled as long as you stayed quick on your toes.

Zombies... all right, with the recent uproar in Zombie games I think Bethesda should REALLY strive to make zombies a little more threatening this time around. You see one - and only one - in the catacombs as you're fleeing with the Emporer. Wouldn't you see - if you saw one zombie in creepy tunnels - many zombies around? Dread Zombies were a little more fascinating with their pestilence like haze, and stronger strikes, but their movements were completely predictable like every other zombie. PLUS! They ALL looked the same, give some had missing limbs and/or heads. I'm guessing they were all either imperials or bretons. I guess I can see why they did this - or could possibly justify this - because most dead families buried in Cyrodiil would be imperials, so... whatever BGS.

Skeletons posed the largest threat, imo, solely because you could come across several at a time instead of just one, and at higher levels they all had the ability to summon a buddy bag-n-bones to the thrash party dedicated to your soon-to-be ravaged corpse. There were two military types of skeletons: bow weilders and blade/blunt weilders (of course there are the armored variant when amongst the ranks of the dark brotherhood, but you only see those through that faction's quest line - and even then they were exactly the same except with a kevlar type vest on which I'll never understand where they found kevlar, and I wasn't even able to loot the body for it!).

And last but not least - LICHS! Bunch of hovering pansies. Their pathetic ability to summon a "lesser" undead and zap you with whatever magical ability is charged up in their staff still didn't even make up for their supposed "powers". Aren't Lichs supposed to be powerful sorcerers who have ravaged their own body and become immortal (in the long life sense, not the I'll-smack-your-face-with-my-sword-50-times-and-you're-dead kind because obviously we were able to do that and they fall over limp just like any another creature in the game.) They're not even impervious to regular weapons whatsoever! At least, regular weapons should do half as much damage to them or something. Of course, a magical weapon kills them "faster", but hey at least you can kill them with a well placed iron dagger in their spine with 6x sneak! (<--- exaggeration, don't take this part literally)

So, give me your thoughts, O' ye ears of Nirn!

I'm ok with Zombies and Skeletons being quantity cannon fodder, walking skillpoints for new adventurers (unless surrounded by many of them). But vanilla Oblivion is a rather bad example to use in a undead power anology because of the hideous levelscaling it uses.

Undead, even Zombies and Skellies, should be fearful opponents, without being an overwhelimng challenge (those are vampires and liches). They should inhabit dark, secluded areas, forgotten ruins or cursed places. Transmit diseases, attack in numbers and Skellies should be very resistant to Piercing and Slashing weapons (which I think was not happening in O). Also, Undead should react little to cold, as they are..

"Trapped in purgatory
A lifeless object - Alive!
Awaiting reprisal
Death will be their acquisience...."

The coprus stalkers in Morrowind were some of the best, because they kept their humanity - so a zombie disease would be the best, ghosts are fine, just make them easier to kill, and have more bonewalker-like mutilated undead.

That is all

Edit: Now I've actually read the OP, I'll say that not everyone's a mage. I found skeletons, ghosts and all sorts impossible to defeat with my Nord.

Liches definitely have to be scarier. Maybe fewer of them, but make those few really hard to kill. I remember doing the Dark Brotherhood quest where you had to kill the Necromancer who tried to turn himself into a Lich, apparently to obtain a Lich's terrible great power, and I thought, so what's the big deal? Just killed about five of them Liches over at Sancre Tor, what's one more?

I think this topic is in the wrong section... but I agree with you. I like how zombies are in Thief 1. Normal weapons could only knock them out for a little while and then they get up again. Only way to kill them was with holy water.

Also, if they allow cutting of limbs, that would be awesome. You cut down their legs and they still keep crawling on their hands to you. Only when you dismember them completly, will they stop coming at you.

I wouldn't want zombies as fast as L4D or swarms.

I had a pretty easy time with skeletons, but I found that zombies were huge damage sponges. I always had to repair my main weapon after an encounter with a zombie simply due to the absurd amount of times I had to hit it.

They weren't acutally challenging to defeat though, just kind of tedious.

Zombies and skeletons should be easy to kill otherwise everything we know about rpgs would be turned on its head. Why beth thought skeletons should be able to summon other skeletons is a mystery; these guys should be just minions. And the use of liches in Oblivion was laughable, the way that once you hit a certain level there would be a lich in every room. Compare and contrast Tribunal, where there were about three liches, each very powerful and hidden at the end of dungeons (although I think there were some levelled lists with them in, which was a mistake). Ghosts should probably be the toughest undead, and I did like what they did in Oblivion were you could only hit them with silver, daedric and enchanted weapons.

god, bonewalkers
if Giant Bonewalkers return, I will NOT be buying this game, just because I would end up snapping the disk and then burying it.

In general I think the undead should be tougher and more varied (and placed more logically). http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-80kdg_hpGwes and zombies in OB weren't anywhere near as cool as in Dark Messiah.

IMO Bonelords need to make a come back along with Bonewalkers.

Well i dont think zombies should be that tough... becuz..well they are not... zombies are weak and always have been. Zombies are however supposed to come in mass number or catch u off guard. What it should be is that when zombies are around dead bodies are on the floor like in all dungeons but sometimes they get up and suprise u. they should be a little more stealthy as well. i culd definitely go for mass numbers in zombies tho.

I like

zombies should be scary,fast, and many (like left 4 dead), their should be a chance of getting attacked by hordes of them as well.

skeletons should be scary,tough, and many with many abilities (bows,swords, axes, shields, spears you name it), they are more tactical than zombies, as they use combat skills instead of savagery (like zombie hunger for flesh)

ghosts should be crazy, tough, and deadly with many curse like abilities and immunity to all but magic weapons/attacks, maybe they should be able to go through walls as well!

lichs should be insanely hard boss like creatures to kill.

Liches should be near gods. If you see a lich, you should be SPRINTING the other direction, not laughing.

Pretty much. That and I want to see bonewalkers and bonelords and some corprus type creatures.

I *loved* skeletons; they were my favourite enemy, always haunting ruins and the like, hissing and snarling at you (which defies logic, as they are only bones...)

Zombies were reeeally hard on normal+ difficulty, and I thought a little too tough.

Lichs were a joke, necros were pansies and only the wraiths/ghosts were an actual challenge.

In my opinion, necromancers should vary ALOT. Some should be near-lich difficulty, others should be "Um, was he an enemy or a free skillpoint?"