I was thinking recently: Fallout 2 is fun, but its technology is outdated, what system might be able to get away with releasing a sequel on the same level?

I came to the conclusion that handhelds would be a very viable option for releasing older games: you still have the oppertunies (text based enemy reactions, Isometric view, turn based combat etc.) to preserve all the elements of an original Fallout game, and, chances are, there is probably good enough hardware on the DS for even bigger environments, and more items.

I chose the DS because it seemed that it would be easier to port a click based game to a touch screen system (maybe right click could be toggled on by the a/b/x/y button)
Another option is the iPhone (probably already something like this out there), but I don't own an iPhone.

I do like the fact that the game is changing over time, and while I don't like some of the descisions Bethesda has made, I enjoy Fallout 3 as a whole, both as a sequel and a stand-alone title.
But some little part of me still wants a true sequel.

Anyway: thoughts? Who agrees with me that the DS would work, if not (besides Nintendo's company policies) why wouldn't it be a good idea?
Who thinks it would be better on the iTouch/iPhone, or even the PSP.

I don't have a DS. I wouldn't mind them releasing one as long as it's also on the PC.

I think the DS, or any portable device, would suffer a Fallout port more than enjoy one. Most ports I've seen have been gamebreaking, and those aren't even close to the same level of scope and content than the original Fallouts. I also fail to see the point. It may aswell be built from scratch to avoid the gamebreaking port issues, given a completely new story, and become a titled spin-off. I think that would be pretty good, and there would be more of a reason for a mainstream audience to accept ISO TB in this instance. Not that I'm pushing for ISO TB, but it would be a refreshing return to form, and appropriate for a DS format.

I would prefer a new iso/tb game for the ds/dsi. Not sure that's something gamesas would be all that interested in doing though.

I doubt Beth would develop it themselves. I could see them leasing it out, if at all.

I don't have a DS or... well... I only have a PC, and I can hardly agree that its outdated tech ~tech is a tool, and you choose the best tool for the task.

Speaking of the Iphone... John Carmack has put Wolfinstien3D on the Iphone with some tweaks, but its largely the same. The problem with a deep RPG on a portable would seem to be two fold. First: Iphones and portables have finite (and valued) battery life, and the kind of game best suited to the platform is a quick "time waster" like Doom or Tetris
~Few would play Planescape or Fallout for three hours on an Iphone. Second: Those games show a lot on the screen, and small size platforms would have to shrink the screen (or reformat it) to a point where it either doesn't show enough on the screen or everything is the size of a Tic-Tac and the text is illegible (or covers everything on the screen).

Myself I can't stand the change. ~Change is often a good thing, but never when it destroys the original point of the item in question... An improved lighter weight sledgehammer made from styrene would hardly be an improvement I think. So too are Fallout3's improvements [IMO] equally damaging to the original series intents.

~And its not like they couldn't have made it play closer to the originals while still using their Gamebryo engine...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Wf_2V7wLkI

As to whether or not it would work on the DS... I think it could be done, but would be somewhat of a Pyrrhic victory of sorts; It would cost money and time, but in the end the game would not satisfy those that did not play it originally, and the original players would [I think] rather play it on PC than lose to the compromises of the DS port.

You'd be surprised what a DS could do. The dual screen is very well implemented, and it does help when needing to 'show alot on the screen'. I've played a few ISO games on the DS, and the screen size isn't at all compromising. I would question the depth potential however, but when I consider the original Fallouts, I think a DS can at least match that scope and depth. Whilst a DS is portable, going back to the Gameboy days, a DS is still very popularly a home-entertainment console, I can happily play my DS in my PC chair for hours. If anything it is an advantage that it's so easy to pick up and play. We're in agreement that a port would be terrible, however. But I think if a foundation was built for a DS rendition, it would work quite well. For a game that has menus and dialogue screens and character sheets and numbers etc etc, the dual screen handles that kindof thing very well. You can have the gameplay on one screen, completely unhindered by flavour boxes, weapon slots etc, because they'll be on the other screen, for example. I also think the 'choice' of touch screen would be good, but knowing me I'd still use the d-pad I don't like using the touch screen for point and click, my preference is for interactive puzzles/challenges. But the choice should be there nonetheless.

I'd buy this. I'd rather it be a wholely new Fallout game than a port of F1/2, of course. There was a sort of spiritual successor to the tactical portion of X-Com that came out a few years ago that wasn't too bad. I could see some promise in something like that. The system really isn't all that limiting, either - I don't see any reason you wouldn't be able to cram all the dialogue and reactivity of the original games into a DS cartridge at this point.

There's a sort of preconception that the DS is only good for quick mini-games, but it's been my experience that it has quite a bit of power in that little thing. Even back on the GBA there were some pretty hefty games out there. Final Fantasy Tactics 2, for example, was a good deal more advanced than the original PS version. And tech has advanced quite a bit since then - you could certainly fit a game of the quality of Fallout 2 into a DS title.

I am surprised... That think looks pretty neat; I can see http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/jj125/Gizmojunk/ds_hardware.gif ~I've changed my mind

I'd say "Golden Sun" is a perfect example of the content and quality (both expansive and visual) just a GBA cart can accomplish. Unfortunately, I haven't seen a game yet that challenges the potential content of a DS cart, but if the GBA can do what it did with Golden Sun, the DS shouldn't have any problem whatsoever with large scope games. It was the poineer for the first online portable 4-player deathmatch, afterall. Whether there has been another since, I have no idea. But the DS is capable of alot more than its current gaming selection would lead you to believe.

There's also the DS Lite and the DSi now. I've still got my original DS, however. Though I'd like to get a Lite or a DSi, if only for the longer battery life and the ability to adjust screen brightness

Yeah, Nintendo has a habit of not really pushing their limitations too much, and then a game like Resident Evil 4 comes along to show you what the system is actually capable of. I think the same could be said for the DS as well. There's a suprising amount of power in that little box, but you don't see a whole lot to really take advantage of it.

For the Gamecube, I'd have to say the Metroid Prime franchise really flaunts its capabilities. You wouldn't think such visual quality in an expansive game world could combine to make a near-perfect transition from a 2D sidescroll platformer into current-gen first person adventure. The trilogy is beautiful as well as fluid and perfectly in keeping with the series it evolved from. You can't count the third one because it was released on the Wii, but honestly, it looked so good on the 'Cube, I found it hard to imagine what could be improved for the next-gen. Metroid has a habit of doing that though. Super Metroid on the SNES still looked better than almost any other SNES game in its current and future market, even after the Super FX Chip (Used in Starwing, the debut of the Star Fox franchise) was released, Super Metroid still stood firm in both its content and visual quality. A very underrated series if I say so myself.

My point is, that many times over Nintendo have failed to really show what their hardware is capable of. In all fairness, most of their licences don't need to flaunt those capabilities, their edge is more an innovative one, which I prefer. But it's good to know the capability is there if the need arises.

Which brings me back on topic to say that a Fallout spin-off on a DS format has great potential

I wasn't hoping that Bethesdawas going to do the sequel. In fact I was hoping the contrary.



Exactly: as a matter of fact I was thinking about Final Fantasy Tactics for the GBA (many happy hours were wasted before I realized most of the specialized jobs svcked) when the idea came to my head.

Point is that the DS is a neat little thing with surprising capabilities, one that can have big maps, and is excused for average graphics.
I'm not sure as to the quality of the speakers (I would love to have talking heads return), but overall it has all the opportunity for a good Fallout-Style game.

As to Gizmo's comment on the mistakes Bethesda has made, I like that you cite your sources, and I agree that Bethesda has a hard time making a "true" roleplaying game, but I'd have to disagree in the fact that the changes are all bad.
To be fair, I was raised on a careful blend of DnD and Duke Nukem, therefore I tend to side with first/over the shoulder person gameplay in RPG's.

We should just be able to play good old paper and pen RPG's with HD graphics. I guess if I really wanted to be a pirate in real life I could move to Somalia ...

Anyway, the reason I suggested a DS game is because it seems to be the one that could follow the old formula closest, while taking advantage the large development teams of the modern day (as I see it Big Team = better graphics, bigger world, but unfortunately a sacrifice in writing). I wonder if Bethesda would be willing to lend the rights to Obsidian for something like this (and if Obsidian would take up that offer)...

On a slightly unrelated note, does anyone know of any "playable" tabletop versions of Fallout besides whichever one is listed on the wiki? I was thinking about working on my own over the summer, but then I remembered that I svck at homebrewing, and D20 Modern doesn't really lend itself to the gameplay style. Then there's the issue of getting people to actually play?

Edit: What's this "Authorization Mismatch" Message I keep getting? What could I stop doing to keep it away?
(Sorry, I'm pretty computer illiterate. I can say: 0110100001100101011011000110110001101111, and that's about it.
I am, in fact, "teh Haxxorz", and I may "pwn joo 1337!!1" )

it sounds like a solid idea. i'm not so sold on the iphone idea though. click-to-touch transition might work pretty well though. it doesn't really matter what i think though, cause i'm not a developer for nintendo, and i don't have the rights to making such a game.

Just means you spent too long composing your message. I get it all the fricken time haha.

As for Fallout on the DS...hmm, not sold on it. I'd much rather play on a PC Now if such a title was for both PC AND DS...maybe...but I'm pretty turned off to modern Nintendo. Just don't like the direction they're going in.

My brother's got a DS, but I still haven't gotten around to upgrading beyond my GBA, so most of what I've seen has been second-hand. Still, he's shown me TV shows he's downloaded/cartridges he's bought for it that play rather well, actually. Sound seemed to be perfectly functionable if not particularly noteworthy. I'd think you could do some digitized voice acting along the lines of the talking heads in the old games (obviously not enough room there to have full voice acting like FO3.)

@FalloutChris re: the Metroid series - I totally agree. That's been one of my personal favorite games for quite some time, and while I'm still partial to Super Metroid over all the 3D titles, they did work much better than I thought they were going to. Good example of what Nintendo's systems can be capable of, though.

Anyway, I'd go as far as to say I'd buy a DSi if they ever did decide to put a Fallout title on it. Back when I got my GBA, it was looking like it was going to be last bastion of the more "traditional" RPGs along the lines of Golden Sun, Final Tactics, etc. Too bad a lot of the other stuff they put out for it wasn't quite up to the quality of those games. It does seem that's often more the fault of the developers than the system itself. (I'd imagine a DS game isn't going to sell as well as a AAA title, and therefore the resources put into making those games aren't often enough to take full advantage of the system, or are just rushed shovelware to take advantage of the popularity of the current titles.)

Whichever one of us is the most articulate needs to send the idea for a spin-off for DS to Bethesda, somewhere they'll read it.

Overall:
We've decided that it would have to be a new story, have talking heads, and improve on the tech limitations (small maps, transitions between cities, etc.)
They should also add a lot of new equipment, possibly some of the stuff (weapons and such) from Fallout 3, and overall, just a lot of stuff.
If they are allowed to use the old soundtrack I think they should take it, maybe add a little to it. It would be kinda cool if there were records players and holotape players lying around in the wasteland (in bars and such) but overall create the feeling of barreness and emptyness. Alternetively, they could add more "wasteland" sounds, better wind wistling, maybe add sound effects to mole rats, who might be digging around, sand blowing all over the place, that sort of thing. Sound is one of the most important parts of immersion. If it's condusive to the DS: add better graphics. Only change combat slightly, a few little tweaks, nothing gameplay changing, and no "evolving". The whole idea is to create a very "Fallout" throwback. The main character probaly shouldn't be a Vault dweller, since the player is now aquainted witht he wasteland.

Who would be a good developer for Fallout DS? It would have to be a third party, since I don't think Nintendo would do it, and as much as it sounds like a good idea, I think that the old fallout developers are more or less done with the old style Fallout idea. Even if they aren't Obsidian is busy with New Vegas and Alpha Protocol. I can't remember the other company that rose form Black Isle's ashes right of the bat, but If I'm not wrong they're busy with some new project. Overall, we'd have to find a good developer that hasn't dismissed the idea of the old Fallouts. Probably impossible, most people are done with the idea of that style of games.

On a different note: Why hasn't bethesda released the original Fallouts for Free Download?
It's not as if they're still making money for them, and doing a quick bug fix, maybe merging all the city sections into one big area, and some other minor tweaks could net them some popularity.
For example, the old GTA games are available for free download.

Alternitevely they could release them for a five buck download, or something of the sort, maybe as an Xbox Live Arcade Game.
This probably already has its own discussion thread.

That would be a good idea if the DS didn't svck. I used to own a DS. Traded it in the week I got it and bought a PSP. The DS's graphics card couldn't support metroid let alone Fallout. but I like the idea of the iphone and other handhelds, but DS NOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

Interplay owns the distribution rights to previous Fallouts. And they actually are still making money from them.

See e.g.: http://www.gog.com

That's not a very well constructed criticism, is it I can only imagine you had a faulty DS. I devoted alot of my time to MPH back when it was hot online, and very rarely was there any slow down. There was no slow down in story mode that I can recall. I think considering the graphics and overall fluidity of the game on such a small cart, is no less than a pioneering achievement. Alright, it pretty much ruined the Metroid experience with a luckluster story mode, but it was very much an online-centric title, and the first of its kind, so everything is forgiven. I still don't know why you were having those issues, but a first impression is a lasting impression, so I wouldn't hold it against you.

@nu_clear_day: Most DS games have a fairly good sound quality, but I'll be the first to say that the DS' speakers never do them justice. I'm not sure if the speakers were augmented for the Lite or DSi, but I find for the original DS all you need to do is put on a pair of earphones and notice all the ambience and richness you miss out on through the speakers. I can play without earphones, but personally, I find it's the only way I can enjoy a portable game to it's maximum potential, moreso the ones that have a greater emphasis on ambience and atmosphere (Metroid Zero/Fusion (GBA), for example), of which I would expect no less from a Fallout title.

Really? How would they be making money? They're not selling any more stuff to stores or distributors, but I geuss people pay them royalties for some stuff.

I always figure that games stop making money after the coppies are all sent out to various stores, and they are out of print.
I'm probably wrong.

They are selling more stuff to stores and distributors, actually. There are new editions of Fallout 1+2+T every few years. And they sell them through various online distribution sites, such as GOG.com.




You are. Fallout games have never been out of print for long. They are constantly being re-released and still sell.

The Fallout Trilogy (FO1/2/Tactics) has experienced a few re-releases in the past. There are still quite a few copies on store shelves. And GOG would pay Interplay a fee for selling their content.

They may not be 'making money', although FO3 would have reignited sales somewhat. But Interplay own the sales rights, and will continue to sell the content unless they distribute it as freeware. Or in a few decades, it could become abandonware.