Do you think the elder scrolls v should a alignment system like fallout 3? I thought the fame and infamy in oblivion was kinda lame

I think they should just make it to where you cant be Lord Crusadr AND Leader of the Dark Bro's

No. Bottom line is, 'alignment' systems usually just end up being useless and meaningless scales of our characters' supposed 'good' deeds and 'evil' deeds that we need to micromanage to do whatever (i.e. you have to be considered 'good' to do this, etc.). Either design a system that really works, or is at least more deep and faceted than 'good' and 'evil' or let us decide for ourselves what our characters are like.

Besides, you do realize that Oblivion's reputation system and Fallout 3's karma system are basically the exact same thing and work the same way, right? They're names are changed. That's about it.

Not really, no. Karma is virtually the exact same thing as Fame and Infamy, just with no beating around the bush about it being an unrealistic omnipotent in-world scale of judgment. If I had my way, TES:V would use no absolute moral scale and instead would allow factions and sub-factions to judge player actions based on their individual and subjective views of right and wrong.

That way, if the player kills a somewhat power-hungry noble, the nobility that were allied with the victim dislike or fear the player. The nobility that were enemies with the victim will hold the player in some esteem. The religious organizations may support the removal of a corruption but may equally frown upon vigilantism. The law enforcement for the victim will passionately hate the player. Merchants and citizens who prospered under the victim may hold a grudge, and the individual citizenry will respond favorably or in opposition depending on their responsibility ratings.

Multiple and faceted reactions to one action, rather than an action automatically and uniformly being labeled uniformly "good" or uniformly "evil." That's what I want, and it's not possible with Fame/Infamy or Karma.


Tying into the topic of in-game representations of good and evil, quests should preferably be designed so that there is no true good faction or evil faction. Factions should truly all have their bright spots and their dark grimy patches, even for the knightly orders. If every faction has dirt under their fingernails in different and creative ways, then it allows the player to reach a subjective opinion about which faction best fits their character's definition of "good" (without the game winking and nudging towards it).

Go back to Morrowind's "reputation" and 'faction reputation" (which was invisible) system. People like you based on who you've helped and harmed. Not "You're good, I like you" and "you're evil, I like you."

Simulating a reputation system in a game is very difficult and so far I have not seen any game that would do it right. The TES system is based on balck and white seeing of the world. Every deed is calssified either good, evil or neutral. But this is not the way it works in real life. There everything you do has several levels: the outcome, the motivation, the surcomstances and so on. All karma, alignment (in the meaning of AD&D games), reputation and whatnot just place the palyer on a two dimensional axis between two better or worse deffined poles of good and evil. I fear that making a realistic representation of reputation for TES V would be nigh impossible, but I agree with That one guy that every faction should have its own reputation and every deed should at the very least be labeled good of evil depending on the faction. Also, your reputation measure method should not be omniwise. If you kill someone and are not seen, how can that influence what the people think about you? If only the fighters know what you did, why should it influence your standing within the merchant group and so on.

And sure, no more balck and white morality like in Oblivion. These guys are all good and holy, while those guys are evil for the sole purpose of being evil? Is there anything less realistic? And the player is actually forced to be a good guy by most of the quests and questlines and his goodnes is rubbed in you face on every possible occasion. Kind of no place for role playing if you ask me.

I think most of this discussion would go nicely in our official TES:V suggestion http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1080894-tes-v-ideas-and-suggestions-thread-%23157/
I'd probably use that one, as this thread seems to be suggestions for TES:V, which is exactly the thing discussed in said thread.

I agree. Please use the existing topic.