The Attribute list trim down

Post » Wed Feb 03, 2010 4:00 pm

Nope
I like to have them seperate for character creation purposes. i.e. an speedy character with little endurance like an archer who can jump high or a heavy warrior character with high endurance for sword swinging but low speed, it just seems nice to have a choice. It sounds as though you want to combine the two which to me would mean less role-playing ability for me.
You may be onto something about luck though, it need to be more apparent what is effecting.
Sorry if i've misinterpreted what you are trying to say.
Those options are nice for roll playing purposes, and you would still have those options in my suggestion. Athletics, which now is only concerned with fatigue loss, would become the determining factor of sprinting and jogging speed. You would have a more direct impact upon your running and sprinting in that context, without the badly handled point multipliers you'd get from increasing skills that don't factor in your running speed. The skills that didn't factor into your running speed in Oblivion were Acrobatics and Light Armor, neither of which would really could make you sprint quicker. In Morrowind they also had short blade and hand to hand in there, I'm just not convinced that Bethesda has a clear idea in mind when they say they want something to be a speed skill. Or they're just not showing it.

Tying the skills directly to the attributes with a sensible attribute system also works to eliminate one aspect of power gaming: People exploiting their skill setup to gain higher levels. If all attributes are tied to skills, and all leveling factors are tied to your attributes (hp increases instead tied right to endurance and so on), then you don't need levels and they won't scale the game to your level, like Oblivion did.
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Ricky Meehan
 
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Post » Wed Feb 03, 2010 9:45 am

Why? Explain.

You may want to see http://progressquest.com/

Perhaps you as well, you've been deprived.

http://progressquest.com/



Tes5 is going to have agility AND speed, deal with it.
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Lucky Boy
 
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Post » Wed Feb 03, 2010 1:44 pm

Tes5 is going to have agility AND speed, deal with it.


Wonderful! Why not add "Running", "Moving" and "Foot Travelling" so we can have even more useless attributes! :hubbahubba:

But seriously, Speed IS useless, deal with it.
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Flash
 
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Post » Wed Feb 03, 2010 5:02 pm

Odd most people want more everything but this you want less... but anyway thats just a stupid idea. Speed isn't useless there is Agility and Speed attributes for a reason they both are for stealth classes just like Strenght and Endurance is for combat. If you want less attributes and them to be in 1-10 scale you should go play FALLOUT and stop this crap.
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Gemma Flanagan
 
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Post » Wed Feb 03, 2010 5:03 pm

Odd most people want more everything but this you want less... but anyway thats just a stupid idea. Speed isn't useless there is Agility and Speed attributes for a reason they both are for stealth classes just like Strenght and Endurance is for combat. If you want less attributes and them to be in 1-10 scale you should go play FALLOUT and stop this crap.
Read more, fly off the handle less. If you want more attributes, post them here.
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Wane Peters
 
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Post » Wed Feb 03, 2010 7:30 pm

Lol sorry, yeah that was a "bit" far off but its because i red only first few sentences from the first post and tought that this was just some troll. :rolleyes:
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Peter P Canning
 
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Post » Wed Feb 03, 2010 9:48 pm

There's two attributes on the list that we just don't need, both for different reasons.

The first one is Luck. Not that luck shouldn't be a factor for your character, but as an attribute it is completely ridiculous. You can raise your luck when you level up by a point or two, but the change is so subtle that it ends up being worthless unless you get a large change. Take it off the attribute list where it is at a scale of 1-100, and put it in the character creation on a scale of 1-10. With ten stages of luck, the benefits of higher luck and disadvantages of lower luck are much more apparent. Then you can choose how high or low it will be, and it will affect your skills just like before. There should be a penalty in distribution of advantages/disadvantages though because without that, everyone would take a luck of ten.

Attributes leveling is already goofily disjointed from skill leveling. What, we level our skills by using them, but we're using the ancient broken attribute system of leveling where we pick any damn thing? What's the [censored] point? You level up the attributes as you use the skills governing them, because that's the obvious correct thing to do. This means luck needs to be pulled out of it anyway, because it's already separated from the skills.

Then there's Speed. Speed will be a tougher nut to crack for some people, but let me give you quick dictionary.com definitions of speed and agility.




So which is the definition of which? Exactly. In terms of the way the game uses the word (not mental agility or something like that) they're the same darn thing. They're wasting slots even trying to fit something into those. What did they do in previous games?

Daggerfall speed skills: Running, Dodging
Morrowind speed skills: Athletics, Hand to Hand, Short Blade, Unarmored
Oblivion speed skills: Athletics, Acrobatics, Light Armor

The only skill to appear twice in that category in the whole TES series is Athletics, which is about the same as running. Athletics, the skill that lets you run with less fatigue drain. Hell, it's the speed attribute which lets you move faster. The skill athletics gives you the very definition of ENDURANCE!

If you didn't get a connection just now, use this one; Make Athletics affect your run speed or swim speed, not a speed attribute. Endurance will determine how long you can make these runs, though they shouldn't be stingy on the run lengths. The other skills under speed like Dodging, Hand to Hand, Light Armor, and so on deserved to be in different categories anyway. Speed has become the waste basket of the attribute list, there's barely a reason for any of the skills to be included with it anyway. I'm willing to bet the only reason Light Armor was included in Oblivion was because they ran out of ideas for a speed skill.

Don't get some idea that I want a reduction of skills, I've got plenty of things to fill the remaining attributes list with, and I'm sure you do too. Don't tell me you want to keep the speed attribute out of some flailing nostalgia for a time when the speed Attribute also didn't make sense, fight for this failing trash bin and explain what there is to save. What's the use of having it when the skillset lineup for it is historically weak, and it's a wannabe Agility that doesn't get play? Why keep it?



I would be that kind of B!t.. , but i agree with him.
In Oblvion much of the skill turned obsolete as much of the profesison.
Beth must revisit the way they handle character skill attribute seriously, and i hope competent people are doing it, not the same that did oblivion, or at least not the same way they did it.
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Roberto Gaeta
 
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Post » Wed Feb 03, 2010 12:59 pm

This is one of the very few times where I say take something out of the game. Speed and agility can easily be integrated into one another, or Speed and athletics for that matter. I would not dismiss Luck so readily though, and maybe if we had some things which were more influenced by chance then this could still serve some purpose. Although levelling it slowly and the idea that it putting points into it is almost useless maybe an argument to get rid of it, but I think that is what Beth intended it for in the first place, for people who just wanted a dump for the points if they didn't want to level their stats. A far-fetched assumption, but a plausible one nevertheless.
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Lizs
 
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Post » Wed Feb 03, 2010 11:49 pm

You know, your right. I'm sick of having to up my agility to score better hits and get knocked back less, then have to go and upgrade my speed so I can at very least outrun a snail.
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Robyn Lena
 
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Post » Wed Feb 03, 2010 10:00 am

Wonderful! Why not add "Running", "Moving" and "Foot Travelling" so we can have even more useless attributes! :hubbahubba:

But seriously, Speed IS useless, deal with it.


thats your opinion.

Which I don't have to deal with, cause the game is going to probably have both attributes. (luck and speed)
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sunny lovett
 
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