Seeing how canon is in-game dialog and information, or from the strat guide, these are facts about Enclave, their bases, etc.

Autumn grew up on oil rig. His father was a top scientist. It says in strat guide that Autumns father was ordered to take high-ranking officials to Raven Rock, because it was only Enclave location with a functioning ZAX computer.

From the wording of this, I would say the presidential order came from Richardson. This could have been a pre rig explosion order, or a in case of emergency order.

It doesn't really say when in timeline order was given.

It also demonstrates that there ARE other Enclave bases, but only Raven Rock has a functioning ZAX.

It also says he only ordered to take high-ranking officials. Doesn't mention an Enclave army, and nowhere in game does it say all Enclave forces came from Navarro. The only Enclave who would be in "retreat" are the government personel from the rig.

So, it is speculation where the actual troop faction of Enclave came from. While many may have come from Navarro, it is very possible other troops came from other bases, some of which may be more militarized than political or research based.

From in game dialog with Autumn it is clear there is a rift between political goals of Enclave and military goals. Autumn is miffed about FEV, stating that plan was abandoned months ago.

Most other Enclave activity is nothing more than pure speculation. This includes Chicago Enclave forces. However, seeing how Enclave remained hidden in DC for roughly 30 years+ when Autumns father went there, it would be safe to say they can remain hidden if neccessary.

Only actual facts about Chicago Enclave is that, it exists, there is more than one outpost, and they are alive at least around time frame of FONV seeing how Ed-E has Illinois license plate, which I would take as sign he made contact. Actual forces, mission, and where they came from, or if always there, is pure speculation.

Enclave is dead to me, as if I had just disowned a child.

It was more becuase President Eden ordered the remaining troops to the East Coast. They didn't find out that the President was a ZAX until after they got there.

Where do you get this from? Cuz it does not say it in game, and it does not say it strat guide.

It says order given to Autumn father was presidential order, to go Raven Rock cause it was the only Enclave base with a functioning Zax computer. Sounds like that order was from Richardson to me, either pre rig explosion, or in case of disaster.

So, where is this Eden order???? Eden says in game he has had no contact with west coast. How can he send out an order when he can't communicate with west coast?

In fact, how can Eden communicate to anyone at all with limited communication?

I think order for Autumn's father came from Richardson. Autumns father could have been the one who turned the power on, so to speak, for Eden.

If you can point me to the in game info that states this, or where in strat guide it says this, please do.

If only the upper echelons of the Enclave came to the east coast, they wouldn't have had the manpower to challenge the BoS as there would be like twenty of them.

Clearly, their army's remnants came with them.

"Presidential" being the key word there, Eden was President during the time it was given. I doubt Richardson would have given that order, although it is possible. "Presidential Order" would lead me to believe that it was given as a command after the oil rig disaster and not a contingency plan for relocation. Besides why would Richardson give a presidential order to relocate to Raven Rock in the event of a disaster to a scientist?



Its says in game that Raven Rock was to act as a communications relay station for military bases around the country. I presume this means Eden was in contact with the West Coast and he didn't have "limited communication" (he also makes reference to how he "formed his personality" from Richardson as well, kind of hard to do if you have never spoken to the guy).



Eden states that he was "on" the entire time since before the Great War "I watched the Remnants of the government retreat to the west coast" (also another hint towards communication). Eden became self-aware and formed his personality during Fallout 2's timeline presumably.


To sum it all up here is a quote from the wiki:

"His father, Autumn Senior, was a high-ranking scientist in the Enclave when, after the destruction of the Enclave Oil Rig by the Chosen One in 2242, he received orders from the new President of the United States who succeeded dike Richardson, a former presidential advisor named John Henry Eden, to take all surviving Enclave troops and relocate them to the Raven Rock military base on the East Coast. "

Eden had to have been in communication with the West Coast because Autumn Senior knew he was a computer. There's no way he could have known that without Eden telling him in advance.

I'm pretty sure somebody says it was stated that Eden ordered the retreat to the East Coast; Richardson was too busy having a bad case of dead from the oil rig explosion to do anything.

Not gonna deny that... my point is that Enclave forces in DC could have came from other bases as well.

Nowhere in game or strat guide does it say Enclave in DC only came from Navarro.

Also, what happened to the government remnants that Autumns father brought? Once Raven Rock began military operations, it could mean they were sent someplace else, because they are never seen in game.

People just assume all Enclave forces in DC came from out west, and I'm saying there is no in game evidence this is a fact. And only in game and strat guide is canon, correct?

They all came from Navarro because the forces under Autumn's control originated from Navarro. They might have stopped at outposts along the way, but that's no reason to assume those outposts (which would have been VERY small) would have been vacated to join them.

Autumn's backstory is that he was born on the Oil Rig. Since that was destroyed, all surviving troops would have had to come from Navarro.

Wiki is non-canon. Richardson could have made that order. He could have made the order pre rig explosion, and sent Autumn father to Raven Rock because there was a ZAX computer there, or the order could have been "in case rig gets destroyed, you are to take government officials to Raven Rock". It not uncommon to make such an order.

Eden states what he watched, odd for a computer, but he also states he has had no contact with west coast and assumes they are dead and mission failure. That odd, cause if Eden ordering survivors to Raven Rock, he would know it was failure. More evidence, in my opinion, that Richardson gave order to Autumns father, who went to Raven Rock, finds Eden/Zax, it becomes president, and begins broadcasting enclave propoganda.

Meanwhile, Autumn father and other scientists begin developing tech for next 35 years.

From in game and strat guide, only things we can use as canon, eden was not a presidential advisor, and he had no contact with west coast.

"While sitting at his desk, beginning to write in his quarters at the bunker" The Outcast Brother is right, and that has been one of my theories as well. But bear this in mind, and please correct me if i am wrong. I looked up Raven Rock, or http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Raven_Rock as it was also known, Raven rock was in itself a Vault of a type because the Toas.....i mean Eden/Zax computer needed it's own facility, as a result, it would be logical that the sight would have a Small force, bearing in mind it was a medium base, for science research, equipment manufacture, and also for Vertibird Manufacture, and the housing of the Zax computer as well. We all pretty much know what happened to the computer and base, so i do not need to go into details. But the amount of troops there plus what would be from Navarro still would not cover the amount we encountered, but it does help explain some of the numbers. However, I cannot justify the rest, unless the came from the mobile base that was stationed at Adams Air force Base, But that would be speculation and wishful thinking on the Enclaves part at best, as I do not know how many personel the crawler contained.

(That should help explain some of my running theories, your welcome to credit or discredit them, just trying to put in my two bottle caps worth.)

Pure speculation. This my point, there is no evidence where troops came from. Yes, I'm sure a lot came from Navarro. But rest is pure speculation and cannot be confirmed or denied.

Chicago enclave COULD have existed since 2077. There COULD have been Enclave in DC prior to Autumns father arrival. Could be Enclave from all over who sent some forces to DC. All speculation.

But, fact, there are other bases, but Raven Rock only one with a functioning ZAX. This confirmed via strat guide. So, Eden was last of Enclave controlled working ZaX. Could be non-functioning ones, and some not controlled by Enclave, however.

Also, size of any Enclave outposts, speculation. We assume they small, but I would say 50-100 Enclave possible, and with their tech, formidable foes or ally. But, that also speculation. You might be right, we don't know.

"Presidential order" suggests to me that it was post-explosion.

What is the exact quote in the Stategy guide that says it was Richardson and not Eden? Is the strat guide "offical-can't refute" canon?



Whats his direct quote?



.....which would mean he had contact with the west. The Enclave's Curling FEV-13 virus was a top secret affair. Virtually no one outside of the President's cabinet and the scientists working on the project knew about it. Therefore Eden must have had contact with Richardson (he states he knew about it) and he probably advised Richardson on the matter.



How would Eden have become President by Autumns father? Autumn Senior would have had no authority to do that. Eden states that he and Raven Rock were designed as part of Contiuity of Government plans, thats what makes him President.

Wiki is non-canon, yes, but it's all drawn from in-game information.

I'm almost certain Eden tells you he was in touch with the West Coast, but I don't have his dialogue on hand.

I will load up FO3 and give you Eden exact quote. By saying Autumn father made Eden pres, I meant that Autumns father informs Eden that Richardson is dead, Eden then begins his Presidency.

President Richardson was a President, soooo he can give presidential orders. Lol.

I would say he sends chief scientist to Raven Rock because there is a ZAX computer there, and it has the facilities rto develop and manufacture tech. That is my take.

Quote from strat guide: His father was the high-ranking Enclave scientist on orders from the president to move all high-ranking officials to the only other secure Enclave location with a functioning ZAX super-computer, Raven Rock.

It be a few minutes for me to get Eden quote from in game.

Btw, in game, Eden doesn't know rig was failure. My point was, if he did have communication, he would have known it was failure. This makews me think that Richardson sent Autumn father, who tells Eden Richardson dead, but has no idea about Virus, but eden does, maybe cuz eden somehow privy to top secret enclave stuff? I dunno...

Eden quote in game when asked where this plan of his came from: a great many years ago, the remnants of the government had a similar idea. I can only assume the plan failed, as I never heard word of its success.

Odd thing for Eden to say if he knew rig blew and he ordered autumn father to Raven Rock don't you think? Cuz, if Eden ordered them, he would have known rig blew, and he would have known plan failed, and known Richardson dead.

I never said he couldn't. I said it was more likely for a Presidential Order to move somewhere else be given post-catastrophe.



That statement is very vague and doesn't specifically state that it was Richardson. So its really just speculation to say that Richardson was the one to give it. It says "he on orders from the President" not "President Richardson made a continency plan for them to go to Raven Rock in case the Rig was destroyed".



No he says he didn't hear word that the virus was a failure. He and everyone else is perfectly aware that the Rig blew up.



The Virus was created post-war and after a considerable amount of time. It was a recent development in otherwords and Eden couldn't have heard it from Autumn's men (because it seems they didn't know about it). Who told Eden then? Answer: Richardson. Which then leads us to the conclusion that he had contact with the west and iit also supports the "presidential advisor theory".

If Eden knew rig exploded, he would have known virus was failure would he not?

Eden never says he talked to Richardson. He said he aquired and anolzed data. Data, I would assume, was from other computers. Eden could have very well been doing this in secrecy. Eden didn't meet George Washington, or any other president, he simply aquired information and used it, doesn't mean he had to talk to Richardson, unless we gonna then say all the ghosts of former presidents came and had a chat with him, lol.

Nope. What if they were able to release the virus before the explosion? What if the explosion itself released the virus somehow? Eden assumes that they weren't able to get the virus out because he never heard word that they did, and because mass-death of mutants didn't start.


Ah but riddle me this. Eden would have access to records and details about Washington, Jefferson and previous Presidents based off his pre-war records, he would have been able to study what they had done and formulate their "personalities". His pre-war data-banks would NOT have given any info about Richardson though, since Richardson was a far-in-the-post-war-world President. How would he have gotten info about them? The only way Eden could have "formed a personality" about Richardson and other post-war Presidents before him was if he had been able to contact them and recieve information directly. It would have been literally impossible for him to get that information any other way since he became self-aware BEFORE Autumn and his lot showed up. Even then, any information he would have recieved from Autumn Senior and the soldiers would have been sparce at best.

Pretty odd for him to be expecting word and saying he never heard anything, knowing rig exploded, etc he shouldn't have to assume, he should know he never gonna hear word, plus seeing how no innoculation took place, if virus was released during explosion, Autumns father and crew would be dead.

We don't know exactly when Eden became self aware. He only states it took a very long time. The earliest we can know for sure that he did is 2242.

Again though, he never states in game he had communication with Richardson, that he an advisor, how he learned of virus, which could have been via secret enclave communication, we don't know. How much of his personality came from Richardson is also unknown, or how he aquired his data on him, which for all we know could have been information stored on holodisc brought by Autumns father and given to Eden, who listened to Richardsons memoirs. It all speculation.

I'm just trying to state the facts, and the stuff about being advisor, communicating with west coast, that all Enclave in DC only came from Navarro, is pure speculation and not confirmed.

He would need to assume because all he heard was that the Rig exploded. He is not expecting someone to come on the radio and say "hey uhhh....we didn't get the virus out in time" but he ASSUMES (with virtual certainty) that they didn't.

They could have released the virus before the rig was destroyed and with the proper inocculation having took place, Eden now knows there is no way that they did. More to the point though is how Eden knew about the virus in the first place? If he had no contact with the west he should not have been able to know about it. The virus was a top secret project that only a select few within the higher-echelons of the Enclave knew about. Eden must have been in contact with on of those higher ups for him to have known.



He says that in the decades following the war he became self-aware. Not that he became self-aware yesterday or a hundred years after the war. He would have then taken on the personalities of Richardson and other post-war Presidents as he came in contact with them.



From what I can see you have presented no concrete evidence to the contrary of those "speculations" and many of your conclusions are speculations in and of themselves. EX: "From the wording of this, I would say"

I'm also not entirely sure that the stat guide is offical-unrefutable canon.

Not trying to be argumentative (I do like debating about the Enclave though) but there are just some things that you will not be able definetly define. Saying that "Richardson gave the order" is just as much if not more speculation than saying "Eden gave the order".

Definite Facts about the Enclave would be, example: The Enclave had their main headquarters on the Oil RIg.

Can't believe I missed this, but Autumn or Autumns father could have told Eden about the virus.

It speculation, but being head scientist, Autumns father could be lead researcher of the virus.

Regardless, Col. Autumn does know about the virus, and knows what it would do and doesn't want to use it, via in game dialog in project purity. Hence, while enclave troops may not know, autumn, and maybe/prolly his dad knew, too. In fact, someone had to create the modified virus, and that person could have been head scientist Autumn.

Kind of a mix of fact and speculation there, but you asked who told Eden of virus, and I gave possible answer.

Reason why I think, from wording that Richardson gave order, is cuz order was to go Raven Rock because it only Enclave base with a functioning ZAX.

If order came from Eden, seems like he would have said, come to Raven Rock because i , John Henry Eden, is your new president and we have work to do yada yada blah.

The wording of the order makes more sense if it was from richardson.

Also, yes, I agree.

The problem is that many people state Enclave stuff as fact or canon, and I disagree. If canon is only in game info, and possibly also strat guide, then many of their arguements are not confirmed.

Because: there is no in game or strat guide confirmation that:

Eden had communication with west.
Eden was presidential advisor.
Enclave troops in DC ONLY from Navarro.
Chicago was created by Navarro remnants.
Enclave was never in DC until after Navarro.
Enclave was never on east coast until after Navarro/Rig.

All of that is pure speculation, thus, the opposite can be true, or there are many, many things we do not know.

If strat guide is canon, then it confirms there are other Enclave bases, they just do not have a functioning ZAX. In fact, the presence of other Enclave bases, who could have sent troops to DC, and this explains the huge number of troops.

The Enclave, in another thread said only in game and strat guide was canon, which is why I used that for info. Even if only in game is canon, then what I have stated is for the most part intact, meaning what many people say, is in fact, not canon.

I want to know where some get their info, cuz I sure can't find it in game or in the strat guide. And if it from wikia, then it is not canon.

So, for people who say Enclave in DC only from Navarro, eden was advisor to richardson, etc etc, please state your source.