Tiber Septim Thread : The Elder Scrolls Series Discussion

» Sat Jun 23, 2012 5:40 am

Ok, having been in the lord forum and seeing many misconceptions about Tiber Septim, I decided to make this thread where we can compile information about himto help newer players citing sources of course.

For example, Tiber Septim, born Hjati (Arcturian Heresy, Old Hroldan(sp?) Inn, The Reach) in High Rock.

I'm on my phone so I can't link web links, but I would be greatful if people can help. Cheers.

» Fri Jun 22, 2012 7:41 pm

Tiber Septim is Hjalti Early-Beard, who is a Breton (as in, he's from High Rock, but actually Nordic in decent) assassin. The Nords call him either Ysmir (they confused him with Ysmir Kingmaker) or Talos Stormcrown.

Talos the God (not to be confused with Talos the man) is the apotheosis of the actions and identities of 3 to 5 people (Hjalti, Wulfharth, Arctus, Ysmir, etc.). Because history being muddled and other crap like that.

EDIT: If I'm wrong about anything please correct me. The last time I read the Songs of Wulfharth and the Arcturian Heresy I was sobering up after my friend's birthday party. Bad time for lore eating I know.

» Fri Jun 22, 2012 8:30 pm

Tiber Septim is Hjalti Early-Beard, who is a Breton (as in, he's from High Rock, but actually Nordic in decent) assassin. The Nords call him either Ysmir (they confused him with Ysmir Kingmaker) or Talos Stormcrown.

Talos the God (not to be confused with Talos the man) is the apotheosis of the actions and identities of 3 to 5 people (Hjalti, Wulfharth, Arctus, Ysmir, etc.). Because history being muddled and other crap like that.

EDIT: If I'm wrong about anything please correct me. The last time I read the Songs of Wulfharth and the Arcturian Heresy I was sobering up after my friend's birthday party. Bad time for lore eating I know.

1. Wulfharth L
2. Hjalti O
3. Ysmir R
4. Talos K
5. Arctus H
6. Septim A
N

» Fri Jun 22, 2012 11:39 pm

Do Hjalti and Septim count as two different people, assuming that the "Septim is Tiber"? Same with Talos and Tiber. Hjalti, Wulfharth, and Arctus and a definite though.

That list is all supposed to be just the list of Shezzarines. That said, is it coincidence that the list is also the parts of Talos.

» Fri Jun 22, 2012 10:20 pm

Tiber Septim is Hjalti Early-Beard, who is a Breton (as in, he's from High Rock, but actually Nordic in decent) assassin. The Nords call him either Ysmir (they confused him with Ysmir Kingmaker) or Talos Stormcrown.

Talos the God (not to be confused with Talos the man) is the apotheosis of the actions and identities of 3 to 5 people (Hjalti, Wulfharth, Arctus, Ysmir, etc.). Because history being muddled and other crap like that.

EDIT: If I'm wrong about anything please correct me. The last time I read the Songs of Wulfharth and the Arcturian Heresy I was sobering up after my friend's birthday party. Bad time for lore eating I know.

Correction: That is the best time for lore eating.

» Fri Jun 22, 2012 8:35 pm

Start your reading from here:

http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Tiber_Septim

There are two versions of his story. One is Orthodox and widely accepted by the people of Tamriel. The other is the Heretical version:

Orthodoxy

He was born in Atmora under the name Talos, meaning Stormcrown in the old Ehlnofey. He spent his youth in Skyrim, where he learned the ancient art of the Tongues as well as the strategies of war from the chieftains there. At the age of 20, he led the invasion of Old Hrol'dan, taking it back from the Witchmen of High Rock. Soon after, growing storms made it known that the Greybeards were about to speak. As nearby villages were being evacuated, Talos traveled up the mountains the Greybeards called home, where they removed their gags and spoke his name, causing the World to shake. The Greybeards told Talos that he would come to rule Tamriel, but he must go south to do so.
Talos became General of the Colovian Estates under King (and later Emperor) Cuhlecain. General Talos met the combined army of Skyrim and High Rock on the field of Sancre Tor, who were hostile to Cuhlecain. The Skyrim army joined him when they saw him use the thu'um and knew him to be the son of Skyrim and heir to the Empires of Men. But the Bretons saw things differently. The general was almost killed in 2E 854 by a High Rock nightblade who managed to slit his throat and kill Emperor Cuhlecain. Although he could no longer use the Voice, he went on to command Tamriel with a whisper. He took the Cyrodilic name Tiber Septim, as well as "Ysmir, the Dragon of the North", the Nordic Name of Kings (also called more simply "Ysmir, Dragon of the North"). Tiber Septim died in 3E 38.

Heresy

(This alternate story shares many of the details and events of the official version, but differs in key aspects.) Hjalti Early-Beard was born on the island of Alcaire, in High Rock. Amidst rumors of a warlord destined to rule Tamriel, he rose to prominence in the service of King Cuhlecain and fought to unify Cyrodiil. Few knew of the existence of his secret ally, the Underking, Ysmir Kingmaker. The Underking provided assistance to the young General, but the manner of his assistance is vaguely described in the book. There are references to a storm that talks all night with Hjalti and deflected arrows while Hjalti shouted down the wall of Old Hrol'dan, where Hjalti was given the name Talos, meaning Stormcrown, by his men. This storm is most likely the Underking, as his body had recently been blasted to ash by the Greybeards, and he is referred to as 'Ysmir, the Grey Wind' and 'the Storm of Kyne'. After the province was conquered, Hjalti murdered Cuhlecain and his contingent in the Imperial City and blamed the deaths and ensuing blaze on assassins from High Rock. The Underking continued to aid in his conquests, and Hjalti took the name Tiber Septim, ascending to the Ruby Throne

You can pick your choice what you want to believe about Tiber Septim. I personally chose to go with the version that is shown in the games.

» Sat Jun 23, 2012 4:31 am

Something that has puzzled me for awhile is what metaphysical circumstances conspired to transfuse three to five individuals into one Lorkhanic stand-in? What was special about each of their actions, and what was so consistent between them all that they were directed into the same oversoul?

» Fri Jun 22, 2012 9:49 pm

Something that has puzzled me for awhile is what metaphysical circumstances conspired to transfuse three to five individuals into one Lorkhanic stand-in? What was special about each of their actions, and what was so consistent between them all that they were directed into the same oversoul?

I see it as a future imperfect kind of thing. People forget who did what and just attribute it all to "Talos", and because belief shapes the gods...well...yeah.

» Fri Jun 22, 2012 8:26 pm

Let it be known that while most people accept The Arcturian Heresy, it is not written in stone that it's completely correct.

» Fri Jun 22, 2012 8:01 pm

Something that has puzzled me for awhile is what metaphysical circumstances conspired to transfuse three to five individuals into one Lorkhanic stand-in? What was special about each of their actions, and what was so consistent between them all that they were directed into the same oversoul?

Probably because the people of Tamriel could not tell the difference between the one and the three... They all appeared as the same person so they became the same person. Those 3 who became 1 looked like Lorkhan because their stories, when all united fit.

» Sat Jun 23, 2012 8:39 am

I prefer the orthadox story myself.

» Sat Jun 23, 2012 9:02 am

I used to be a staunch believer of th e Orthodox version, since my thinking at the time was that the authorities never lie and alternative versions are conspiracies(I was 15 at the time, and still deluded). That was until I got my ass handed to me in a debate about it on the Imperial Library, oof, the butthurt on my end was strong that day, 5 years and still haven't recovered.

What really confirmed my faith in the alternative theory was reading all the blatant lies Imperial Scholars had in other books to force through an agenda(Bear of Markarth anyone?). Don't get me started on the PGE books.

» Fri Jun 22, 2012 7:28 pm

There used to be fantastic debates and expositions of lore on these forums back then.... for all our Lore mastery, we concluded Alduin was the same as Akatosh

Then Skyrim came out and that Theory took a major arrow to the knee.

These days I bias my understanding toward what I see in the game.

» Sat Jun 23, 2012 7:37 am

Is it really just due to the muddy waters of time? That seems a little disappointing, especially considering that those three to five people were all fairly distinct.

» Fri Jun 22, 2012 11:36 pm

Don't forget that they were actively trying to look as if they were one person if the heresy is to be believed. (Wulfharth works in the shadows so that it does not appear that Hjalti is in two places at once)