After playing the main quest over and over, it feels a little too simple to me now. I always wondered what would happen if one or more of the false incarnates still alive during the player's ascendance were actually powerful, persuasive, and influential. How would the player deal with these powerful False Incarnates? What connections/support might these Incarnates have? Do they honestly believe they're Nerevar Reborn, or are they playing the masses along for some ulterior motive? I think this could open up a whole new can of worms on the main quest.

I was thinking of several powerful False Incarnates that would need to be dealt with in different ways: 1 for each Great House (these would need to be dealt with sooner rather than later if the character wants to win that House's favor) and a couple independent ones.

1) A Redoran warrior who quite honestly believes himself to be the Nerevarine. (He's passed all the tests up past being cured of Corprus [some seemingly lore-correct reason would need to be given for this]) and who has the full backing of all of the House except for Bolvyn Venim.

2) A Hlaalu rogue who doesn't really believe in all this spiritual mumbo jumbo, but who happens to fill a few of the prophecies and sees possible monetary/political profit from pretending to be the Nerevarine, and who has some followers who know the truth and are playing along to soak in the money and power in his wake.

3) An ambitious Telvanni wizard who fulfills several prophecies (some by extorting some Ashlander camps into proclaiming him Nerevarine through various nefarious means) who thinks he can unify and lead his House to power through this venture and drive out the Empire, and subsequently become ruler of Morrowind (and he's just arrogant enough to think he can truly destroy/coerce Dagoth Ur without actually being Nerevar Reborn)

4) An Ashlander hero (Urshilaku) who has some legitimate blood-ties to Nerevar somehow, and who has the blessing of the non-Telvanni-extorted Ashlander camps and who claims to have visions from Azura regarding his being Nerevarine. (I know this might conflict with Julan)

5) A double agent for Dagoth Ur, posing as a Dissident Priest, who truly fulfills some of the prophecies (the early ones) and who appears to fulfill later prophecies with the help of nefarious magic from Red Mountain. He even appears to have possession of Moon-and-Star, though close inspection by wise and learned people could reveal it to be a fake. He would plan to deceive the people into making them believe he's their savior, when in reality he'll be helping spread the blight and dream sendings to important people and eventually rule Morrowind as Dagoth Ur's right hand (or so Mr. Ur has told him...)

The player would have to deal with these people in different ways, often diplomatic and cunning, for they all have powerful friends and connections, and a simple outright killing would cut off the player's legitimacy as Nerevarine.

Has any thought been given to/any mods been made about something like this? I have next to no skill with the CS or anything to it (I don't have time or know-how to take it up), I just have ideas. A mod like this would effectively add a whole new chapter to the main quest, and it would complicate other aspects of the main quest (like the false dissident priest incarnate would need to be taken care of before the Dissidents proclaim the player's legitimacy, the Urshilaku would distrust the player until their Hero is dealt with, etc.) Anyone think a huge mod like this would be worth it?

Funny you should mention this idea. I was thinking about something similar the other day.

I've finished the Great House Dagoth version of the main quest and in that mod you do have the option of playing as a character that is either still working for the Empire and pretending to be a friend of Dagoth Ur in order to get close to him and destroy him or you can be 100% loyal to Dagoth Ur and only be pretending to still be carrying out the Emperor's orders (I went with the latter). Either way the player character turns out to be the Nerevarine.

Even with a character who is loyal to Dagoth Ur, the Nerevarine prophecies are completely fulfilled, just not in the way everyone always assumed they would be. So as I was playing through this version of the quest, spreading the word that my character is the Nerevarine and it is the Tribunal and the Empire who are Morrowind's true enemies, not Dagoth Ur, I would often think, "There HAVE to be people out there that are not accepting this message. There have to be others who think they are actually the Nerevarine if for no other reason than the fact that I am NOT fulfilling the prophecies in the way everyone thought they would be fulfilled."

Without a doubt there would be plenty of people that would never believe my character to be the Nerevarine the moment she said, "Dagoth Ur and I are allies and we stand together against the Empire and the Tribunal."

Even now with the main quest over, since Dagoth Ur is still alive I keep thinking it would really be interesting if there were others who think that they are the Nerevarine and they try to come to Red Mountain and fulfill the prophecies in the way they think they should have been fulfilled. (Which would be rather tough in this particular situation since my character has the real Moon-and-Star and Dagoth Ur has all three of Kagrenac's Tools, but of course that's just how it is in my particular game. In other games the where-abouts of the ring and tools would be different)

Anyway, I really do like the idea of other people out there claiming, "I'm the Nerevarine!"..."No! I'm the Nerevarine!"

So it is possible to continue to be loyal to the Emperor with the Great House Dagoth mod, but still join Dagoth Ur in the end? I thought you could only take Ur's side if you didn't get your corprus cured in time. Cool.

Not to get the thread off topic but you do have to wait until after you get to the corprus stalker state before you can join House Dagoth, but once you're on the inside you are still free to role-play your reason for being there in the way you want.

And now back to the topic of how interesting having to deal with other Incarnates would be.

It also seems a tad lore breaking. In the MQ, all of the camps never fully back a person till you come along. I would say instead that one of the camps in particular supports Urshlaku, mainly because of their zealous hate of the legion. However you don't have the room to add him.. since the camp that supports you in the vanilla would know for sure it's you, and must remain undecided till you come along and the others are being terrorized by a wizard. (unless he is coming from a hypothetical camp you never see)

So here's an idea instead:

1.) He actually has the support of many dark elves. They hate the legion, outsiders, and many are revolting right? So if an ashlander came out of the blighted lands claiming to be Nerevar, they'd be more prone to believe him, especially since the ashlanders are awful mysterious. He would be more what they expect.

2.) You could add him as an additional hopeful. Surely a camp would be keeping an eye on more than one potential at a time. When you remove one of the others, you learn of him.




It's also important to remember that the mage throwing his weight around would have to be very smart. Even the temple can't find these camps, or they would have gotten rid of them. The camps in theory move around a lot, and the ashlander tribes are very nomadic. They would also be used to affliction because of where they live, so this mage would have to be pretty creative to scare them.. maybe he has threatened to reveal their location in the past, but even so, they would have just moved while he was away. He'd have to be really clever to keep up with them.


In fact, it's prolly important to tie in the temple and their blood hunt over the incarnates, because they bring it up a lot, especially in rumors and such. Perhaps you could make one who hasn't fulfilled many, but has launched a campaign against the temple. If he/she did that, it would get the temple's attention enough for people to know of them, and many would support such a person on principle alone even if they don't really believe in him/her. For example:

Worshipers of the old way, necromancers, ashlanders (after all the temple hunts them.. enemy of my enemy), and maybe even another incarnate hopeful would secretly help them to avoid detection from the temple themselves.

Hey, it could even be revealed after awhile that this person who is attacking the temple in some fashion actually knows they aren't the incarnate, but the temple killed a family member of theirs who DID think they were the incarnate and so this person wants revenge on the temple. (thus the act.. to honor a dead relative and gain followers for their purpose)

Yeah, Temple involvement would be a must. But it'd be different than the vanilla Temple mission to deal with the False Incarnate in Suran, because these new False Incarnates would actually be powerful, smart, skilled, and have some powerful connections that could cause trouble for the Temple if the Temple just offed the troublemakers.

Only the Ashlander and the Redoran Warrior would actually *believe* they're the Nerevarine...the others (double agent, telvanni, hlaalu) would know for sure that they aren't the true Nerevarine, but they have different reasons for continuing the ruse. The Hlaalu doesn't believe in it at all, and just wants money and fame, and he might be backed by some questionable Imperial faction, going against the Emperor's orders, who want increasing Imperial influence in Morrowind via the Dunmers' own "superstitions."

I was thinking of having the double agent dissident priest be the one to lead a revolt against the temple. Some Dissidents follow him and don't even mind having some questionable characters join too, but the truly faithful Dissidents (Mehra Milo and company) still contact the player, but first ask him to deal somehow with the Imposter before they can really "get down to business."

I was thinking perhaps the Telvanni wizard may have stolen the bones of a tribe's ancient ancestor and threatens to sacrifice the bones to some dark god like Molag Bal or Mehrunes Dagon if the tribe doesn't do what he says. (Also no one in House Telvanni really "believes" their candidate to be the real Nerevarine, they just know his plan and like it). He does believe in Dagoth Ur (since he's spoken with him in the past) but not really in the prophecies ( he doesn't believe Nerevar will ever be reincarnated).

Yes, the Ashlander hero concept would have to change the story a little bit. Perhaps he could claim to be a survivor of a dead clan and has been in hiding until he started seeing visions from Azura. Perhaps the Urshilaku story could continue as usual in Vanilla, but they'd tell the player he needs to take care of the Ashlander incarnate in order to win the favor of the tribes under his sway (at least 1 other tribe, possibly the Zainab and Ahemmusa).

And perhaps after dealing with them initially, they might turn up again later. For example, if the player exposes the double agent Dissident as being a member of the 6th House, he could be driven off only to be met again later, probably somewhere within Dagoth Ur. At that point perhaps he (or she) and the player would fight to the death (this could work nicely with Darknut's GDR--there are plenty opportunities for epic confrontations in the new facility). And maybe if the Redoran Warrior isn't killed in the first encounter and instead goes into exile (perhaps after seeing the player with Moon-and-Star) we could meet him in one of the Ash Vampire strongholds looking for Keening or Sunder, and perhaps being killed by one of the Vampires there or something. OR maybe he and the player arrive at the Cavern of the Incarnate at the same time, have a confrontation, and the Warrior attempts to take Moon-and-Star from the player and is killed when he puts it on.

I just think these things could greatly enhance the richness of the story, and actually give the player a sense that he isn't god, that there are in fact other people out there just as powerful and influential as he is (a la Baldur's Gate 2: Throne of Bhaal), and also give more replay value with different possible methods of dealing with these Imposters.

Yes, I understand and fully support this.. though it must be remembered who is really leading this hunt against the incarnate, and she doesn't care what happens really. She may be crafty, but she is quite well, over sure of herself.



Perfect! I like this a lot. It sounds as if it would already be in the game, and is super lore friendly. It also helps explain how he can do this to them without knowing where they are.



These dreams would have to be explained, because Azura would more or less tell him he isn't the incarnate at some point. Maybe as the quest progresses he learns he was only meant to find you and help the tribes accept you, but he can't bring himself to give up on what he thought he was. He becomes deluded, refusing to help and this is why it is revealed you must deal with him to gain support.. with him in the way, some of the tribes won't believe you to be the incarnate. After all, one of their own is speaking out against you, albeit in the false hope of being Nevear. This would accomplish the tough competitor intent on several fronts, and even seem like it was always part of the story.

I really like the idea, but with a few exception tough.

1) I think it's better if Bolvyn Venim do accept the Redoran warrior.
2) Make sense. :thumbsup:
3) It could be the Zainab Camp.
4) :nope: Maybe change that to reflect the blood ties with the Ahemmusa Ashkhan, which is long dead and there the player must find a safe haven for that tribe before they named the player to be Nerevarine of Ahemmusa. I wonder what Kateri have to say about Julan.
5) A fouls play perhaps. :nod:


I'm are completely useless to dig into CS and actually to even begin modding. :banghead:
The rest is okay with me.

@Maholix: Good suggesting. :talk:


Possible rewrite some part of main quest to make fit with the rest of the quest line (temple :confused: ). Why not choose the Erabenisum tribe instead, after all they are the "The War loving Erabenisum tribe" in the vanilla, but after the player have appear they do support he or she instead.