Soul Cairn residency and should we burn mages at the stake?

Post » Sat Jun 30, 2012 8:51 pm

All I can say without any hesitation is that people who were soul trapped and were used end up in the Soul Cairn. However, how exactly do you end up there? Some people bargain with the Ideal Masters, they trade souls for powerful spells such as conjuring powerful creatures. Do only those people traded end up in the Soul Cairn? That's what I'd like to believe. However, regarding Saint Jiub,
Spoiler
he was killed by Daedra in his own home in the city of Kvatch, so he probably took an enchanted mace to the face
Yet, why would he end up in the Soul Cairn then?

Now I feel bad for doing any kind of enchanting work, and I was wondering, should a vigilante group be formed or something that burns enchanters and necromancers at the stake? Perhaps the Knights of the Nine could control what goes on in Cyrodiil and burn the monsters in Cyrodiil? I really can't see enchanting as ethical or humane if they end up in the Soul Cairn.

If that isn't the case, then how exactly do you end up at the Soul Cairn?
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LuCY sCoTT
 
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Post » Sat Jun 30, 2012 8:59 am

Now I feel bad for doing any kind of enchanting work, and I was wondering, should a vigilante group be formed or something that burns enchanters and necromancers at the stake? Perhaps the Knights of the Nine could control what goes on in Cyrodiil and burn the monsters in Cyrodiil? I really can't see enchanting as ethical or humane if they end up in the Soul Cairn.

Magicka is too important to Mundus for that severe of an action. Nearly anyone can learn magic. It's not like it's a curse ala Dragon Age.

Are you still bothered by soul trapping "white souls"?
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Charlie Sarson
 
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Post » Sat Jun 30, 2012 8:04 pm

it appeared as if anyone soul trapped ended up there, juib's story makes it sound like a dremora soul trapped him. Also i think black soul gems are fairly rare in lore (in oblivion they had to be made by the worm cult) They seem pretty commen in skyrim though
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Zach Hunter
 
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Post » Sat Jun 30, 2012 6:06 am

Magicka is too important to Mundus for that kind of action. Nearly anyone can learn magic. It's not like it's a curse ala Dragon Age.

Are you still bothered by soul trapping "white souls"?

No, I'm "bothered" by the fact that people are doomed to be animals to the Ideal Masters. I bet the local Nords would have razed the College by now if they figured out Ysgramor was soul trapped and was denied access to Sovngarde.(he didn't, just an example) In fact, I never had a problem with soul trapping until Dawnguard.
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Gracie Dugdale
 
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Post » Sat Jun 30, 2012 5:35 pm

Meh. Just another thing to laugh maniacally about while doing seemingly innocuous things like enchanting. Hardly something worth setting anyone on fire for.
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FLYBOYLEAK
 
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Post » Sat Jun 30, 2012 5:30 am

No, I'm "bothered" by the fact that people are doomed to be animals to the Ideal Masters. I bet the local Nords would have razed the College by now if they figured out Ysgramor was soul trapped and was denied access to Sovngarde.(he didn't, just an example) In fact, I never had a problem with soul trapping until Dawnguard.

I'm not being snarky with you.
As whiteguy1x, pointed out black soul gems aren't supposed to be a common thing. It requires a lot of effort to make a soul gem that can trap souls of sentient creatures.
Generally it's been reserved for creatures and Deadra.
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Sheila Reyes
 
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Post » Sat Jun 30, 2012 3:58 pm

Meh. Just another thing to laugh maniacally about while doing seemingly innocuous things like enchanting. Hardly something worth setting anyone on fire for.

I think people living in eternal misery is far from innocuous. If residency in the Soul Cairn was only caused by greedy necromancers or mages who wanted to get more powerful and bargained with the Ideal Masters, that would be different since that is dabbling in the dark side. But magic and enchanting is something so mainstream, widespread and no one really pays it much attention. I'm just trying to figure out the nature of entry so as to form an opinion about enchanting.
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Paula Ramos
 
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Post » Sat Jun 30, 2012 12:19 pm

I think people living in eternal misery is far from innocuous. If residency in the Soul Cairn was only caused by greedy necromancers or mages who wanted to get more powerful and bargained with the Ideal Masters, that would be different since that is dabbling in the dark side. But magic and enchanting is something so mainstream, widespread and no one really pays it much attention. I'm just trying to figure out the nature of entry so as to form an opinion about enchanting.

Mainstream enchanting wasn't meant to use mortal souls.
Galerion, Mannimarco's rival, developed it for the masses. He hated anything involving the Necromantic(?) arts.
It was corrupted by greedy individuals, like Mannimarco.
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Nomee
 
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Post » Sat Jun 30, 2012 8:01 pm

I think people living in eternal misery is far from innocuous.
*Points at the word seemingly*
If residency in the Soul Cairn was only caused by greedy necromancers or mages who wanted to get more powerful and bargained with the Ideal Masters, that would be different since that is dabbling in the dark side. But magic and enchanting is something so mainstream, widespread and no one really pays it much attention. I'm just trying to figure out the nature of entry so as to form an opinion about enchanting.
There's nothing wrong with enchanting, considering the use of sapient souls is entirely optional. (and due to the scarcity of black soul gems, not likely an easily used option)
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herrade
 
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Post » Sat Jun 30, 2012 6:35 am

Harkon is a liar. I thought we could feed on the souls of the dead. Drain their energy or something, though I think only the Ideal Masters can do that.
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kennedy
 
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Post » Sat Jun 30, 2012 7:20 am

I attack Mer just on principle. But mages? I'm not that much of a savage.

Ahem. Really, come now. Instances of people being soul trapped seems to be fairly uncommon, and there have been feats of which mages have done that far outweigh trapping one or two people in the Soul Carin for. Even if you were to attempt to take up some action, Daedric tomfoolery would render it moot sooner or later.
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kelly thomson
 
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Post » Sat Jun 30, 2012 5:56 pm

Think of it this way. It's a way to punish the particularly nasty people after death.

Like that bard in Dawnstar for her hideous voice.

Or that bandit who wanted to [censored] with me and ended up wasting my time.

Those [censored] deserve it.
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Trista Jim
 
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Post » Sat Jun 30, 2012 2:23 pm

Now I feel bad for doing any kind of enchanting work
So it wasn't a problem before that things had to be killed and have their essence trapped in soul gems, for your enchanting? It wasn't a problem that we had no idea what happens to their souls when a soul gem or enchanted weapon is used up (for all we knew, they could've ceased to exist)?

At least with the Soul Cairn, we learn that they aren't erased completely from existence and retain some sort of consciousness. They can be communicated with, and in some cases can temporarily return to Tamriel (as Arvak and Durnehviir show).
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Ellie English
 
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Post » Sat Jun 30, 2012 2:37 pm

So it wasn't a problem before that things had to be killed and have their essence trapped in soul gems, for your enchanting? It wasn't a problem that we had no idea what happens to their souls when a soul gem or enchanted weapon is used up (for all we knew, they could've ceased to exist)?

At least with the Soul Cairn, we learn that they aren't erased completely from existence and retain some sort of consciousness. They can be communicated with, and in some cases can temporarily return to Tamriel (as Arvak and Durnehviir show).

I always assumed that the soul gems used the energy of a soul, but the soul would remain intact. So once the gem is used, the soul is free to move on. However, it is evident they go to the Soul Cairn instead. So yes, it was never a problem before. You can't really fault people for something such as this, because nobody really knows what happens in the next life.

However guys, please remember that I came here to wonder about the nature of the Soul Cairn and I'm not trying to jump to conclusions. I'm trying to get clarification so I can form an opinion then. I don't know if souls can only be sent if the Ideal Masters barter or if it is just any random soul gem that gets filled by any random person.
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Enie van Bied
 
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Post » Sat Jun 30, 2012 12:49 pm

I always assumed that the soul gems used the energy of a soul, but the soul would remain intact. So once the gem is used, the soul is free to move on. However, it is evident they go to the Soul Cairn instead. So yes, it was never a problem before. You can't really fault people for something such as this, because nobody really knows what happens in the next life.
Even if you assumed the best for the soul, it still required killing them.

I don't know if souls can only be sent if the Ideal Masters barter or if it is just any random soul gem that gets filled by any random person.
From my understanding, it's anyone that gets soul trapped and the gem being used up. Anyone that the Ideal Masters would want, anyway, since it's implied they place different values on different souls.
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Code Affinity
 
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Post » Sat Jun 30, 2012 7:50 pm

Why do you think enchanting is immoral just because you can use black souls? Nowhere does it say that enchanting requires a black soul.

Using black soul gems is an idea from Mannimarco and his Order of the Black Worm. Don't blame all mages for the crimes of one small group.
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Horse gal smithe
 
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Post » Sat Jun 30, 2012 9:54 pm

The first mention of the http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Soul_Cairn is in http://www.imperial-library.info/content/soul-cairn. It would seem that Dagon made some sort of deal with the Ideal Masters to send mortal souls to them. Necromancers also make deals with the Ideal Masters.
It's not something a common mage would do or possibly know about.

Only Black soul gems can hold "black souls" (Mortal races.)
In Skyrim, the only time you can get Black soul gems is locations where dark rituals have taken place or from Enthir at the College. (Who likely gets them from the Conjuration instructor or by shady black market deals.)

So the everyday enchanter likely isn't doing anything malevolent.
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Amber Hubbard
 
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