So, this will be spoiler tastic but must be answered, we know that in Oblivion rumors went about that Saint Jiub died valiantly fighting the Daedra back in Morrowind. That our friend that we only met once apparently drove the Cliff Racers away and became a Saint of the Temple - only to die at the hands of the Foul Four Corners.

...And then Dawnguard came and flipped that on it's head. Apparently Jiub didn't die in Morrowind. Because he wasn't even in Morrowind to begin with. He was in Kvatch. That city was destroyed before the Oblivion crisis even started.

This premise is so full of contradictions it doesn't make sense. While one can say "It's a rumor, it isn't immediately fact" - apparently rumors in Oblivion were so accurate when it came to events that they were considered canon. (Such as Vehk's disapperance, Ald'Ruhn destroyed, and so on)

But yes. Saint Jiub was in Kvatch writting his 26 Volume Epic (He's a John Milton, that Jiub <3)...But then this brings something into the field. If apparently nobody was talking about this apparent Living Saint now coming to Cyrodil and intended on living in Kvatch and apparently nobody decided to tell anyone in Cyrodil that he left Morrowind..then why say Saint Jiub died in Morrowind fighting the Daedra during the Oblivion Crisis?

Rumors, and lets face it. The Oblivion Crisis means that news from other provinces is... sporadic at best.

Do we need to get into the details of all the RL people who are rumored to have died when they're still alive?

The more important question is how did he achieve all that he did so quickly?

Does anyone have a good theory on how many years passed between TES: III and IV?

Six years passed between morrowind and oblivion. Enough time to rid morrowind of cliff racers and move to kvatch and not many would have known. Then his sudden disappearance sparked rumors of his must be death back home.

The Oblivion rumor said that he was killed by daedra.
"Many are dead in the land of the Dunmer. Even St. Jiub, who drove the Cliffracers from Vvardenfell, has fallen to the daedra hordes."

Other than implying he was in Morrowind at the time, it fits with what he says in Dawnguard.

The two examples you use of rumors proving to be true have independent confirmation (Vehk disappears Bilbo Baggins style at the end of his trial, and the destruction of Ald'Ruhn is described in another MK writing).

Even in the age of the internet, all kinds of false rumours can spread like wildfire. This is Tamriel, where news travel through word of mouth... and we know how inaccurate those can get...

It does make it odd that one rumor (which implies that Jiub is in Morrowind - and if Bethseda wanted to tell us otherwise they'd tell us Jiub was in Kvatch. "Many in the land in the Dunmer are dead - and even Saint Jiub has fallen when Kvatch was taken!" However the problem is the rumor doesn't circulate until the Oblivion Crisis is in full swing.) is false yet Ald'Ruhn and Vehk is true. (While MK did make the rumors make sense and I like his confirmations of it - apparently Oblivion rumors were the 'Word of God' until they're proven otherwise. Like in this case)


As much as comparing Saint Jiub's rumored death to Kim's numerous accounts of being rumored dead would be hilarious - I don't think it'll earn much of a laugh.

I guess they changed their minds.

I'm loving Jiub's attitude and voice. The way he's self righteous and pompous. He reminds me a lot of Temple Priests and Ordinators.


He's also clearly exaggerating his prowess as a hunter, since Mjoll the Lioness mentions hunting Cliff Racers in Morrowind as a young girl with her father.

The rumor isn't false. St. Jiub did fall to the Daedra hordes. He was one of the first to, actually. Just because the rumor doesn't spread until the Crisis is in full swing doesn't mean he was killed when it was in full swing.

The implication that he was in Morrowind at the time can easily be written off as most people not knowing he was in Kvatch. They just heard he was killed by the daedra, and assumed he was in Morrowind (being a Dunmer whose exploits were in Vvardenfell could reasonably lead people to that conclusion, especially if he didn't broadcast his travel plans).

Morrowind or Vvardenfell? St. Jiub drove them out of Vvardenfell, not all of Morrowind.

If he drove them out of all Morrowind - the ecosystem would be hit really hard.


Yes - though it could be said as a half truth or really vague rumor. (Which is meant to be vague!)

"In the land of the Dunmer many are dead. Even Saint Jiub.."

It makes me question for they would have to know that A - he fell in Battle or B - they found his body. Kvatch was practically destroyed and all evidence of those who fell with in. (Buildings remained. And a Count's body)

But - if they stated his Death because they couldn't find him then they must have done that for numerous amounts of people. (Whatever city of Vvardenfel he resided in before leaving) So after the battle they'd check the homes and if they didn't find the owner of the home they'd declare them KIA.

That's how they might have done it, likely. To make sense with the Oblivion comment.

Apparently he did take on an entire cadre of Dremora by himself, but they overwhelmed him. He was nothing if not brave and ready to fight. Shame that bravery wasn't enough. He even enquires about the fate of Kvatch, but there's no choice to reply to that question.