That sounds like a really interesting solution, Steve, though you are right it would be a bit of a pain to have to place it in all interior cells. I wonder if there is some other way to manage it.

Currently I have it set up to create sound events if you bump into cans, soda bottles and milk bottles. It's a bit of a trial at the moment to see how it feels
I have been doing most of my testing in the Super Duper, so that a bit part of the trash there, though its easy to add the script to other items.
I havent actually tried throwing yet (I'm in Bangkok at the moment so I can't test it) but it should work fine.
Why don't you try adding the script (moneycan) to a baseball and report back how it works out?

Spooky, that is an awesome offer! As I said earlier, for stealth based players, corpse recognition is the major piece that has been missing. I will definitely be looking into this when I get home.
Thanks a ton!

Yep, that's the one, he also had a very cool mod where you could duck under enemy swings that needs to ported over ASAP!

How would you get the corpses to pulse a spell unless by adding a script to every NPC in the game?

Okay I went back to springvale school with the correct stealth setup. If I went to the left and waited in the brightly light area outside that first room, the raider saw me immediately and I entered combat. If I could kill him in 1-2 hits my stealth-o-meter read [Caution], but I went to the dimly light area in that hallway closest to the fron t of the building and though 1 raider walked through the area he didn't see me in the dark corner hiding behind the askewed filing cabinet. On one play through it took several hit to take the raider down as he was armed with a pool cue and blocked a lot. At that point I had the flashing [Danger] status and I made a sprint mod bee line to the bathroom, where I hid in a stall for about a few minutes and I eventually went back to hidden. (I equipped my pistol because my real life heart rate was up ) I then went to the right side of the main entrance which is darker but had 2 raiders hanging out in a single room. I was able to stay hidden long enough to stealth kill the first with out raising the alarm, I then stealth killed the second, but only after he walked up to the dead body, decided it was not important and walked away.

So to sum up: I like this mod!! :shocking:

I really looking forward to seeing some sort of OnDeath short range detection pulse script in action. And in regards to my post about adding an item to individual cells. I had an idea for my own mod that required me to go cell by cell by cell for every cell in the game, I spent about 2 weeks trying to figure out another way and decided to just do it and get it over with. So while I wouldn't ever ask another modder to go through that much brain pain, I'm glad I did it because now I can change a line or two in a few scripts and get all kinds of wonderful results.

Sad to say that for me, this latest version is a step back from the previous. I tried out the SuperDuperMart again, and this time, almost as soon as I step through the front door, in sneak mode, I get four or five raiders running towards my location. They are not in my line of sight and I haven't knocked over a bottle or anything--it just seems like the detection is set too high. Went back to the previous version of Stealth and this time I at least made it past the entrance before I got spotted ... I'm sticking with the old version for now.

Cool, Yeah, stealth play with thes settings can get a bit tense at times. Thanks for the report.

You're right, adding body detection will take it to the next level.

Hi James,
Thanks for the report.
I hear what you are saying about entering the Superduper . I did a major percentage of my playtesting there and often encountered what you describe.
I'd like to explain why this is happening, and why I don't think it indicates a need to change the numbers back to the older version. If you aren't convinced by my explanations, I will finish with some simple ways you can dial down the perceptiveness of the AI to bring it closer to v1.0.
First of all, I would like to reiterate that the primary idea behind this mod is to bring it as close to real life detection as possible. As I was fine tuning the numbers and play testing them I was constantly asking myself, "If I was really doing this, is there a good chance I would be detected?". If what I saw in the game differed drastically from this, I attempted to fix it. The biggest problem with the stock game, and with all other mods was the detection distance. Beyond about 40 yards anything you did was undetectable. With these settings you could enter the Superduper in a burning Monster truck and the raiders wouldn't notice. This is definitely far from realistic, so in v1.0 I more than doubled this, and increased it to about 120 yards in the latest version. In version 1.0 the raiders were in range to detect you, but the settings, though tighter than stock, weren't very sensitive at that range.
This lesser sensitivity had another serious side effect that I felt needed to be addressed ? If you were in darkness, crouched and immobile enemies could never detect you. In fact they would walk around you if you were in their way, without ever spotting you! This peculiarity was also in evidence in the stock game and every mod I have tried, but I hated it and was determined to get rid of this I could manage it.
In the latest version of the mod, I believe I have succeeded.
With a sneak of 50, alerted enemies detect me at very close range roughly about half the time, even when immobile in perfect darkness, and especially if there is more than 1. I think this is about right.
Now coming back to the Superduper. The problem here is that the entry is almost set up to have you discovered (Raider planning perhaps?).
In front of each door there is a patch of bright light, and beyond that about 40-70 yards there are 2-3 raiders patrolling so that their arc of vision (180 degrees) is towards the door for a large percentage of the time. From the point of view of realism, it is almost a deathtrap.
But it's not hopeless.
When you first enter, you are in a strip of darkness. If you don't move at all, you will not be detected.
Stay still and observe.
You will see the raiders patrolling in front of you. If you move when they are facing the doors, you will be spotted. Then they will call their mates, and you end up as the next roof decoration.
It can be very difficult to judge when they are facing you or not, as the game seems to create a bit of fog at distance, but if you watch carefully for a while you will start to get a feel for their patrol patterns. As soon as you are sure they are all facing away, move forward into deep shadow. After that, stay in the shadows, move when you are not in LOS and you can scurry like a mouse throughout the place.
If you have a silenced pistol, you can try a more active approach. Fire one round into the wall to the side, out of LOS of the nearest guy. He will hear the impact and become alerted, and start to approach, but it's likely that farther enemies will not. When he is close enough to guarantee a headshot kill, drop him. Make sure you do it in one shot! If you are a bit careful, you can strip away the nearest patrollers and get into the store without raising a general alert. You can't be in a hurry. I have often seen myself waiting for up to a minute at the doorway, before it was safe to make that first move. It can be a bit tense and frustrating, but I think it realistically reflects the situation, and that is the aim of the mod.
I was a huge fan of the Thief series, and am trying to recreate that tense, stealthy feeling. If you like the idea of sneaking being a slow, careful and often nerve-wracking experience, I would encourage you to give the new settings another try.
I realize that this isn't to everyone's taste though, so if you want to keep the extended range and the noisy litter, then the easiest way to dial down the sensitivity is to open up the GECK and lower the fSneakBaseValue.
Thanks again for the feedback and always glad for any more thoughts you may have.

I assume you can use this with FWE and MMM if you merely load it last?

Hey I have an idea you might be interested in. You may actually have already implemented though, I haven't read through this thread.

I was thinking that sneak skill could be added for when the player is walking. So instead of being spotted straight away, it would take a while (depending on skill) to be spotted while walking.

Of course standing up, the sneak skill would drop significantly. So perhaps 50% or higher. Then there is the night-time to consider. Perhaps night-time could add a bonus to sneaking, like +10.

So, a character with 100 sneak skill would have 60 while walking at night time and of course zero when running.
I just thought maybe something like this could be done instead of being spotted as soon as my character stands up when the enemy is around 80-100 metres away and I'm in pitch darkness (fellout)

Also, when I enter an indoor area and I'm walking, enemies who are in a totally different room imediately know that I'm there and run in to kill me. I think it would be more realistic if it was a noise they heard, so a failed sneak attempt would result in the enemy investigating the noise rather then come running becasue they know it's an enemy.

Or maybe you could even add a perk "Sneak walking" or something like that.

I just hate that, because I'm standing, I'm spotted.

Sorry for the slow response. Just back from a couple of weeks in Thailand (unfortunately most of it work related)

Yup, I use MMM with increased spawns. Trying to sneak past a horde of feral ghouls is a slow and sphincter tightening experience... :ph34r:


In response to your suggestion, detection is not automatic when a character is walking uncrouched. All elements of the detection algorithm (noise, LOS, light, distance, etc.) apply as usual. Sneaking just adds an additional (though quite major) deduction to this calculation to take into account that the player is moving cautiously, keeping low and stepping carefully. It is certainly possible to remain unspotted without having to crouch, but it is definitely more difficult.
Basically the system works as you describe, but keep in mind that most indoor areas are littered with trash, rubble and other noisy detritus, and that old creaky floors and rusty hinges will make silent movement a major challenge unless care is taken.
My suggestion is enter a building crouched and slow. If nothing is in LOS, move to cover/shadows, then pause and listen.
In most cases you will hear close enemies they hear you.
Enemies do not have magic radar, but if you run jog carelessly into an unknown room, expect to attract some unwelcome attention.