the only area i see the pacifist role fail is acquiring corprus and confronting dagoth ur. as for the plot, most of the 'kill' characters could have their scenarios changed more diplomatically (perhjaps requiring loads of gold instead), a certain quest items could be placed next to the guards...

Ah yes, it's been so long since I played the MQ I forgot how you acquired corprus. Now that I remember that, doesn't the player have a long chat with Dagoth's minion before killing him and getting corprus? Perhaps he'll give the player corprus after refusing to see his side of the argument anyway, just to be spiteful, even if the player doesn't kill him. Perhaps a pacifist character would walk into that situation with high ideals about convincing him to turn away from evil, and come away sorely humbled and disappointed. Or perhaps the character is absolutely forced to kill that character, and has to come away from that situation feeling utterly horrified and ashamed by his or her actions.

But yes, those are the big issues. Altering the MQ in any way is touchy and has to be done with extreme care. The smaller kill quests along the way wouldn't be a problem though.

I don't think you should be forced to kill in the Corprus part of the MQ. That would go some ways to defeating the purpose of the mod. As for Dagoth Ur, some way to imprison him (magic-proof cell, or even an incredibly strong soul gem) could be one work-around. As for opponents submitting after hand-to-hand combat, perhaps a script could be attached to some spell or weightless object the player is given at the start of the game, which targets the stricken enemy and issues the stopcombat and setfight 0 (on a timer?) commands once their fatigue is detected as being below 0. Also, the Morrowind Code Patch allows you to loot players who have been knocked down by hand-to-hand combat, which could be useful for retrieving quest items.

I think it could be done via a global start script that's continually running in the background (with appropriate frame checks of course to keep it from bogging the game down). I know of a few mods that do it this way.

And you're probably right about killing in the corprus part of the quest. I'll have to think of something creative to get around it.

I think the pacifist would agree to side with Dagoth Ur and get corpus that way from the Dagoth. But then carry on with the quest normally. Maybe this would make the Dagoths and dreamers passive to the pacifist since you said you'll side with Daghoth Ur.

I think Dagoth is more likely to give you corprus for being obstinate. The dreamers are not a big problem. Most of them are passive. Those that aren't can be pacified.

Making the other denizens of Red Mountain passive, like the ash ghouls, would take all the challenge out of the game. I want a pacifist character to be do-able, but not easy.

It doesn't matter if someone dies though, they aren't actually gone, but the act of doing it is the wrong thing.

It's ok to let creatures "wither away", but souls cannot be destroyed. The problem is, the game doesn't allow one to see what's after death, death is game over in the game, but it isn't really.

I'd love an "ascension" mod, breaking past the limits of your body, just like the Dwemer's were doing, and then they were destroyed, sad thing that.

There's even more issues involved with being a pacifist in Tribunal. I was thinking mainly of vanilla MW, but the DB attack script adds an extra level of "oh crap" factor when you have assassins after you.

Also...what could be done with Amalexia?

Maybe you can convince almalexia that she's no longer divine, and she kills herself ina fit? Bloodmoon would be too difficult to change though, except the East Empire colony would be easy.

But these changes change major things in the game.

About the corprus part, you fight because the dude attacks you. Thats the way it works. In real life, if someone attacks you you can't change it.
As a pacifist character you gotta find another way instead of changing major things as in real life you won't be able to add "options" to people attacking you.

Hence why I think being a pacifist is unrealistic.(at least in a global sense) Sure its possible being confined to secure neigborhoods, like staying in Seyda Neen to parallel into Morrowind, but stuff happens and staying pacifist isn't always possible.

Instead, you can roleplay a person who thinks is a pacifist, but realizes its a harsh world and anything can happen(maybe a close encounter to death?), so then you fight in self defense and kill only when needed.

I think you're missing the point. Yes it changes major things in the game, but only to open up possibilities that weren't there before. I'm not going to call this a pacifism mod. I'm going to call it the Peaceful Resolutions mod, or something to that effect. This mod isn't about "pussifying" Morrowind. It's about making the quests more interesting by adding more methods of conflict resolution.

As a relatively pacifist character, you can use a calm spell, or something to equal effect if something attacks you. If that doesn't work, you can try to run, or levitate away, or beat the opponent down with your fists until they drop (the fact that you have to beat them to death and can't subdue them is one of the main things I want to address. Why shouldn't there be an option to do that?) If you happen to be a skilled fighter, then you should be able to make your opponent submit. The fact that you have to fight to the death is only assumed because the devs didn't place any mechanics for npc submission in the game. You don't have to kill anybody in real life, even if you are in a dangerous situation. Even if someone's coming at you with a weapon, you're not limited to the option "kill or be killed". Police are trained to negotiate, and try to mitigate the situation before resorting to violent means (at least in Canada), and often those violent means do not necesitate killing. Violence is always a last resort. You CAN make people submit. Maybe not every time, but most of the time. When someone gets into a bar fight, it's very rare that someone actually gets killed, and it's almost always by accident. Fighting!=Killing. Now it's not a perfect world, but this is the ideal. Life is not confined by RPG mechanics. People are not AIs that won't stop attacking unless you kill them (or change their behavior with the console). There are billions more ways to deal with real people. Morrowind is a game. It is limited in its scope, but we can choose what we want to get out of it with mods.

The only reason people think they have to kill these characters is because this is the only option MW gives you, and because it's the only option nearly every other game gives you. This is why I love the adventure game genre, suffering as it is. An adventure game makes you spend more time finding creative solutions to problems. Have you ever played Dreamfall? There's a lot of conflict in the plot of that game, but the main character is never forced to kill anybody. She can fight, but she never absolutely has to. One segment involved sneaking around a bunch of creatures. You could engage them in combat if you wanted to, but you could just as easily stealth around them and not have to fight. As an RPG, if Morrowind didn't have enough hack-&-slash to appease the general crowd, it wouldn't sell, so this is what they cater to. They write the quests assuming that the player is going to kill anything that attacks them. And yet, if we all did that, would anyone have found out about Qorwynn being an enchanting trainer? What I intend to do is give people a wider range of options when it comes to solving quests. No-one has to take those options if they don't want to.




I think these are very good ideas. I haven't even looking into Bloodmoon yet though. I'm just tossing out ideas for the moment, but I think I'll organize it so that I do vanilla MW first, then Tribunal as the next release, and then maybe Bloodmoon after.

Right. But my point for example Dagoth Ur wants you dead. Dark Brotherhood is out to kill you too.
How will you get away and stop this without killing someone?

Anyways, I'll just stay silent now, don't wanna have tempers flare(not saying it has, just as a precaution)

You don't have to stay silent. I was merely refuting your broader point that a mod like this couldn't work. You actually raise really good points in this post. Dagoth Ur is a big issue and this mod would have to handle that very carefully in order to accomplish its ends. The Dark Brotherhood are another complication. These things need to be brought up in order to be addressed properly. They simply can't be ignored in a mod like this, because then it wouldn't accomplish its goal.

i like the idea really much. the point of solving quests peacefully without violence as a POSSIBILITY is very charming. yeah, even if i'm not a pacifist, a violence-free solution for some, many or all quests (besides fg and hause redoran as being who they are) is a wider variet? of roleplay.

i did this now. i put in the following: becoming arch magister (telvanni) peacefully. getting the threads of the webspinner from both peaceful npcs via exchange. getting auriels bow via exchange (no hint for the exchange item, very difficult to find). these are only OPTIONS. you still may fight the npcs or pickpocket them.

i haven't played every quest. are there any more npcs like this?

I employ a little of it, in moderation. I hated coming upon outcast Ashlander or Mabrigash camps and laying waste to Dunmer en masse as the pre-Nerevarine, I'd rather save than kill. So now I just chameleon or go invisible and make my way around. Same for Winged Twilights. Before MCA, I thought these rather Harpy looking creatures were just wild and dangerous. Then MCA was created and their companions, and whomever wrote the great background story to the half-Daedra character Shareel changed that forever for me. Now, even when attacked by them, I try to just get around or go invisible for fear that I may end up killing Shareel's mother on chance. Silly, perhaps, but it makes my immersion much better. Too bad that they weren't scripted or changed to be exactly what they are lore wise, the messengers to Azura. I think a mod that makes them appear to deliver occasional quests or boons from Azura would be not only a great mod, but incredibly lore friendly as well. Even if it was activated upon spacebar or proximity, like bandits and some NPC's.

I haven't given up on this idea. I've just been finishing other mods. I will probably work on this mod next. I may start it sometime next month.

since i only mod in german i won't get in your way. it was just the idea of how things could be solved.

what i have done for me so far: gothren asks me if i want to challenge him or if i would let him go. since this was my first mod and it was mostly done by a friend, this is the simpliest solution i had.
the girl with the sanguine amulet sends me out to give her another amulet as substitution. you have to get it from a hostile char in a smugglers cave - but she does not wear it. you may sneak and steal it.
the man with the sanguine shoes asks me for an information. depending on the quality of the information (chosen by independend quest stages) i got the shoes and maybe something more than that.
the holder of auriels bow sends you out on a impossible quest, no ideas, no hints. but if you find the item via accident, you may trade it.

When you started out in the OP I thought perhaps you were talking something like playing a "Kwai Chang Caine" character like the old Kung Fu series... The Shao Lin monks as the show depicted them were essentially pacifists who were highly skilled fighters.

I tried to play such a character once, but the unarmored skill being screwed up and the inability to walk away from a confrontation without actually killing the opponent caused me to give up eventually.

Yes, that's actually the general idea for my character, a type of monk with a similar value system to the Shao Lin. With the Unarmored fix in the code patch, this type of character is more feasible, but there is a need to script some kind of mechanic that makes NPCs surrender after they've been thoroughly beaten. The intent of this mod would be to make it possible for characters like that to actually finish quests (except where it would not make sense lore wise. In cases like that you just have to choose not to work with certain factions, like the Morag Tong). I am very finicky about lore friendliness, and all my mods take it carefully into consideration.

Sister, I like your ideas, and I hope you don't mind me perhaps incorporating some of them in my mod in the future.

of course please do so. if i would have liked to keep them secret i would not have written them in here