If I recall correctly, the other planets that one can see on Nirn are the manifestations of the corpses of the Divines who were tricked by Lorkhan, correct? What would happen if, hypothetically, the Dwemer had created a rocket to visit these planets? Do you think it'd even be possible to go there or would it be something of a piece of food in front of a treadmill? If you did manage to get there, what would you find? A realm filled with items associated with that deity? A place of love and beauty on Mara's realm, of forges and mills in Zenithar's? A incredible wilderness that puts Valenwood to shame on Kynareth's?

And, on another COMPLETELY unrelated note, how much truth is there to the words of Mankar Camoran when you're in the Grotto? Is what he said about Dagon reclaiming a rightfully Daedric realm true?

It already is possible. Look up Sunbirds and Mananauts and Taterdemalion (spelling?).

To clarify, Sunbirds are birds made of sunlight that the Altmer fly into the Void. Mananauts are Cyrodiilic astronauts. This may be monkey--truth, but the Khajiit get really high and walk there if I remember correctly. There's breathable air on the moons I think too.

They had a colony on Masser in the Second Era.

Camoran's speech is not just insane rambling, but whether he's right again is up for debate. Semantics and all that jazz.

3rd Era right?

I forget. Let me look it up!

For the second part... it's all up for grabs as to what Nirn actually is. I'd call it a realm of Atherius, not Oblivion, simply because the Aedra had a direct role in creating it. In fact, it can be argued to actually be the realm that Lorkhan had initially reserved for himself- his corpse can be seen in the form of the two moons, plus his heart being thrown into Red Mountain. Unless i'm horribly mistaken, Lorkhan/Shor only ruled Sovngarde AFTER his creation of Mundus and death. Plus, most mortals who die go to a realm of Atherius, while all Daedra return to Oblivion.

Because of these two "proofs" (being created by Aedra instead of Daedra, and mortal souls naturally going to Atherius) I'm claiming that Mundus, if not a realm of Atherius outright, is closer to it in nature than it is to Oblivion.

In fact, even Makar Cameron had his termonolgy mixed up- Daedra rule over Oblivion, Aedra rule over Atherius. As the difference between the two is originally, in fact, who had participated in the creation of Mundus, his statement about Mundus being Lorkhan's Realm would by default make it a realm of Atherius, since without Lorkhan, there is no Mundus, or the division between Aedra and Daedra.

http://www.gamesas.com/topic/1327177-tatterdemalion-the-lunar-province-of-secunda/ was near the end of the First Era. The http://www.gamesas.com/topic/1336585-tiber-septim’s-sword-meeting-with-cyrus-the-restless/ was in the early 3rd Era.

Aedra do not rule Aetherius. The Magne-Ge do. Aedra residing in Aetherius is Cyrodiilic propoganda-esque false-relgious belief. Same with the dead going there. They do not.

Camoran's reasoning is that Mundus is similar to a realm of Oblivion, being composed of an Et'Ada's body (or bodies in our case), but the Aedra stole it from him. It's not completely wrong, but not totally right either. It's all about the angle you look at it.

EDIT: Ninja'd
Nirn is a part of Mundus which is a seperate realm to both Aetherius and Oblivion. Both Anuic and Padomaic Et'Ada had a hand in it's creation. Those that did became a part ofMundus.


Aedra don't rule over Aetherius the Magne-Ge do . The Aedra after Convention either became the Planets, the Earthbones or the Ancestors of the Mortal Races.

Saying the Magne-Ge rule over Aetherius is like saying that Y'ffre rules over Nirn. I imagine that Magnus is the head honcho there, and I've never seen him called a Star Orphan, only his children.

Anyway, I imagine that what one would find would be incomprehensible. In Akatosh's plane(t), all moments of time are one. In Dibella's, there is so much beauty it literally drives you insane. In Arkay's, a place where the barriers between the Dreamsleeve and the Arena are nearly nonexistent.

So... what's Sovngarde, then? Full of Dead Nords, and all whom claim that Shor rules there. And all existing lore points out that Sovngarde *is* a Atheric realm. Are all those Nords and Tsun hallucinating?

Space is pretty much Oblivion, mostly, correct?

It's implied in the Keyes novels and in the Interview with Denizens of the Shivering Isles that there are many unseen and unknown things hidden between the Principalities in pocket realms and in the black aether itself. The Aureal and Mazken of the Shivering Isles say that even Daedra fear to wander between realms, disembodied. It is cold and filled with frightening things. I'd pack a lunch and a compass if I were you.



Heard of pocket realms? That's a wallet chain realm. It's anchored to both Mundus and Aetherius without being of either place.

Previous lore says yes it is nothing but a hallucination left on souls after being washed clean by the dreamsleeve. The only account we have of Sovngarde being in Aetherius is your in game journal, which just says it with no backing or evidence (and again, shows the Cyrodiilic idea that the dead go to Aetherius, which is untrue).

EDIT: Ninja'd by the Legate, who has a better answer than I.

So, can you point to lore backing what you're saying?

I've not actually seen much evidence on the Dreamsleeve. Seems to me like given Sovngarde is real, perhaps the Imperial belief (note that in TES IV alone there are quite a few ghosts that talk about the afterlife) isn't as untrue as people assume it to be.

Mind, now, we're never explicitly shown, or even told that Sovngard is in Aetherius. Literally the only shred of evidence for this is that bit of questlog fluff, which as I might remind, is coming from your own character's perspective, and therefore as suspect as any other in-universe source.

Also, seeing as Beth seems to assume by default that your PC subscribes to the Imperial Cult, which places the afterlife in the Aether, that questlog really starts to come across as a big load of hegemonic proscription pie.


Not that it's unreal, just that it's reality isn't really what we're being sold.

I've got a theory that Sovngard (which, based off of real world North Germanic roots renders a meaning something like 'Realm of Sleep'. Seriously. In modern Norwegian, S?vn gard means 'Sleep Farm') is actually Shor's hero-filter over the mouth of the Dreamsleeve. Tsun is the intake. Fail his challenge, and you get recycled.

Good idea, except that Shor doesn't care what ideology you're fighting for (for the most part,) but that you are a capable warrior. A Nord who became a tyrranical warlord would be given the same chance to enter Shor's Hall as Tiber Septum (had he not ascended.) We see Ulfric and Torygg go into Sovengarde, as well as Nord Imperial legionarres and Stormcloak sympathizers.

Except that you didn't read my post very closely. I didn't breath a whisper about politics.

That is not what he means. He means if a Nord fails to prove himself against Tsun, he will be cast into the Dreamsleeve(or simply recycled from that point).

I am pretty sure it is implied Sovngarde is a Realm of Aetherius via ingame journal.