When I closely examine the base goals of the large factions, I realize that while they all are aimed at an ultimately good-for-humanity goal. They fail in it's execution. Whether it be their morals are lacking or altogether non existent, or the way they went about it was not good for the health of the faction (BoS) or even they were moral, but didn't know how to keep themselves going efficently. (Followers of the Apocalypse are basically the peace corps. If they took over all would be well, but they are too non-profit.)

The topic here is where you agree/disagree and your thoughts. I wasn't really sure how to present this thread. So let me explain how I feel about these things.

Enclave: They wanted to cleanse the world of the radiation that has stricken it. They failed in the sense many of the superiors considered all people that weren't in the enclave's bunkers during the bombs being dropped are not worth saving. As if the evolution (not in a good way mind you) of the human race to adapt to radiation, or mesh radiation, was not worth saving. This left literally everyone their enemy. They did have a very strong hold due to their advancements in technology. However, the actions of the antagonists of F1-F3 destroyed them.

In Fallout 1, their headquarters off the coast of California was destroyed.
In Fallout 2, another one of their largest bases was destroyed.
In Fallout 3, another one was destroyed, along with a supercomputer ZAX personality that essentially solved the problems that wound so many civilizations. Leadership, and how people react to the leader changing.

Brotherhood of Steel: In the war of 2077, humanity had lost much of it's progress. The BoS wanted to recover as much of the past as they could, so that the future could speed it's progress. Einstein said that he did not know what World War 3 would be fought with, but knew that World War 4 would be fought with sticks and stones. The BoS aimed to recover the weapons of world war 3, essentially. Their fall was in their primitive form of leadership and government. The only people that were allowed to be BoS were people that were born into it. From what I've seen however, a couple locations of BoS corrected this within themselves. Like in Tactics and F3.

In New Vegas, when you approach the Brotherhood of Steel, you are held at gunpoint right upon discovering the outskirts of their establishment. Everyone refers to you as outsider, and you have little to no respect. Mr. House commented about 4 of the bunkers self destruction upon them being invaded. He commented about their unwillingness to compromise. Much of their faction is rooted in tradition, and cares little about humanity. This is exemplified within the Outcasts. They did not want to help squabbling wastelanders, and decided to break off to get back to the main goal. Recover technology and reverse engineer it for future use.

New California Republic: NCR is the group that I have the least to speak about on what they did wrong. From the start, they did a lot right. They chose a democratic leadership which means the people are in power. At this early in their existence (less than 200 years.) and the fact that they are still of course in a wasteland, cheating and propaganda isn't as prominent.

However, they often fail in their very virtues. As one president's reign over 50 years. Caesar has commented on such. He said he respected the president Aaron Kimball but thinks the NCR would have done better if he seized power rather than "earned" it. This of course is paraphrased. Their downfalls are that they are widely spread out, and sort of backhand their way into areas. They are not forceful like the legion, but none the less take control of whatever area they seek to occupy. Which is why House had a problem with them.

The large majority of their troops are green. They are new and untrained. If you ever worked for the NCR in New Vegas, you will find out there is a lot of shady business, and even one of the captains is a legion Frumentariis. The largeness of the group makes them very vulnerable to such things.

Caesar's Legion: From the start, the Legion was a brutal, ruthless, and dominant group. Their numbers are largely bolstered by conquering tribes. Caesar is thus known as the conquerer of 86 tribes. Many of his highest ranking members (Legate Lanius) came from conquered tribes. Im reluctant to reference Lanius, as his existence is largely shrouded in mystery, and there is much speculation that Lanius is merely a name and a mask. Kinda like when Captain America was frozen in the iceberg and his friend took over the role (Sorry, Im a geek ).

What Caesar and his legion did right was that no outsiders could merely earn their membership. You came in by being conquered and young enough to be swayed into a legionnaire. The members are taught to be fiercely loyal to their leader Caesar. The unusable in the ones they conquer are made into slaves. Further making use of the conquered. They are ruthless, show no mercy, and even commit suicide on imminent defeat so they cannot be interrogated.

The reason they will eventually fall is best expressed through the words of others. The Legionnaires follow Caesar and his rule, not his ideals. Human nature always conquers every government that tries to oppose it. Which is why communism constantly fails in the real world. When Caesar falls there is much pointing to the falling of the legion. They are made to lead one leader, a constant leader, an emperor. The very faction is named after one person. What happens when he dies of old age? Infighting will eventually topple CL.

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In conclusion, there is only one faction who did basically everything right.

So may I finish this off properly by saying this; TUNNEL SNAKES RULE

What about House? And Indy? They're not exactly 'factions' but they have morals and falings just like the others.

House didn't really do anything wrong. His fallings were that he couldn't do much of the vital tasks himself. The courier was much more important of a person than the average courier. If the delivery was made without interruption (I.E without Benny) he would have upgraded his bots and things would have gone well. He likely would have found a way to get that bunker infiltrated and activated the rest of his bots. Those things are probably one of the hardest regular beings in the game upgraded. I had a YCS/186 and they still kick my [censored].

What's indy?

House's failings are that whilst part of the population will live relitively well (the strip), the rest are left to rot and to continue living in squalor.

Indy is just 'Independant' shortened, and indy's failngs are that whilst everyone has a fair chance to live relitively well, theres a large chance that everyone could end up, again, living poorly should the independant path not go well.

You've mistaken me. Indy isn't a faction, it's an ending in FNV. I've played all the games, and a lot of the older ones resurfaced in FNV which is why I can see the confusion.

But no, I'm not talking about the endings or your choices, I'm talking about the factions. The flaws you listed with House are inevitable in all societies, or so I can tell. There will always be a rich and a poor. The reason the strip is so nice is because they regulate who can come in. If you look at any free space in the Fallout world it usually svcks. You have to regulate who can be a part of things. I don't really consider freeside a part of vegas. Rather a society of rejects that built around it.

Once again, I'm not talking about paths, I'm talking about factions.

Independant Vegas becomes a faction one you make it...independant.

Also some of your NCR flaws are only exclusive to the mojave, like green troops.

I guess......?
I just never really thought about it. You essentially become the next house, but you have none of the pull house does, none of the money, and none of the recognition.

Ah, but House chooses to ignore the surrounding area despite the fact that he has the power to improve things, infact he wants The King killed because he doesn't want any sort of rival power, even though the King helps Freeside greatly. He chooses to only help the more fortunate, which is fair enough because in his mind it's better to ensure that some people are living well rather than risk the scenario where everyone lives poorly.

And I realise that you were talking about factions, but many people see House and Indy as factions, considering that they have an army and land.

I can't really get into depth about 'Indy' because we are only given hints of what it would be like when you choose that path. It all depends on the Courier, doesn't it?

But Freeside is full of thugs and wastelanders. If he chose to make freeside a bastion of help for anyone that wanted it, he could just give money to the Followers.
When free stuff is available, it quickly runs dry. Its like turning the air condition on and trying to use it to heat the world on a hot summer day. Sure, it's there and it helps some, but its ultimately hot and your electricity bill is going to go through the roof.

This is a moral dilemma more than it is a flaw in his ruling. His securitrons are more powerful than any well equipped human being (The courier doesn't count.). They are also large in numbers, can repair themselves, and shoot missiles. Even if their was some sort of uprising in freeside it would be torn apart by the super robots. Super robots which by the way have been left completely unscathed by the war. It was literally the pinnacle of technology at 2077, and it survived.

House isn't a ruler, he is a business man and a critical thinker. He wants Vegas/Nevada as a free state that he himself rules. No one can make it into the Lucky 38 without his say so. The courier kills him in all but one of the paths you take. But without the courier getting free entrance, theres no way into the Lucky 38. He lives forever and has a super fortress that could only be infiltrated when he practically let an invader right next to his special chamber. Hell, he could have turned off the elevator and you're screwed right there.

That's the failing of House though, he isn't a ruler and this has caused coup attempts by Benny and Gammorah because they they didn't feel threatened or obligated to stay under Mr. Houses rule. They hadn't ever even spoken to him. He just takes their money.

Freeside is full of thugs and wastelanders, but the three families used to be mere gangs, and look how they turned out. House doesn't bother trying to help Freeside because he doesn't see the profit in it, that's another failing.

Not supporting a group because you don't see any gain in it isn't a bad thing. Once again house is an independent. If we consider him and his securitrons as one then we are discussing a leader and not it's group. The flaws in the strip are that no one is truly united, everyone has an edge, and the NCR is slowly creepy their way into control of it.

It can be a bad thing depending on how you want the Mojave to develop, so leaving Freeside to rot is something that doesn't appeal to everyone.

Anyway I'll get back on topic.

As for your points on the NCR, I think that choosing a democratic basis is a bad thing. Pre-war democracy was a large factor in why the world got blown to hell. NCR takes their template from a corrupt, greedy government, and these traits live on in the NCR. As for your point with the NCR not being forceful, i disagree. They aggresively expand and take what they want, the only diference is that they make laws that make it 'legal'. They took Helios One when they wanted it, and now they seek to take control of the Strip.

I was going to make make the point about Tandi and her reign and Caesars comment on it, but you've taken care of that, I think it's an important point.


Edit: I'll post more later, getting late.

Houses flaw is that he is incapable of movement, and his army is under Caesar's fort. So, unless the Courier chooses to work for him, House is just gonna wait for the NCR or Legion to win Hoover Dam and take over the strip.

Either I made a mistake in my typing or you misread. When I said not forceful, I meant that they act in more the form of corporate take overs, and siezing power by their mere presence in numbers. Not that they don't take places.

I have never looked much into the great war or what caused it. I know it was a battle between China and America, and for all we know China either won or we both lost in ultimate nuclear demise. The positives in democracy is that the people have a voice, or atleast are fooled into believing they have a voice. It's nostalgic to the old world, and they are generally accepting of all peoples. Though the higher ups can be shrewd and power hungry, many of the superiors are honest people. I do not view the Democracy a downfall because of it's relatively short existence. The larger a democracy is the harder it is to maintain. Look at rome, rome for a very long time was a republic with 2 elected presidents. It eventually became a dictactorship/empire due to one man taking absolute power. You know this man as Caesar.

Due to its relatively short existence, the NCR has not been encumbered with the disadvantages of letting people choose whos in power. Propaganda, or so I can tell, isn't a big deal and neither is cheating in the elections. This is not always true with short lived democracies, as shown in Vault 11. The voting group was small, and much propaganda took place.