Walking around Oblivion is fun, but usually only one creature will confront you in any given area, and I'd like to know how it's possible to increase this by either using the construction set or console commands. I regularly have to run to another area just so I can fight 2 bears instead of 1 lol.

Now, there is an old Wilderness Creatures List Mod but I don't know how compatible it is with newer patches, so what I want to know is this:

Using the construction set, how is it possible to spawn more bears/wolves/dogs etc in an area where only one normally ocurrs? What scripting (if any) is used?

Even bandits can become less threatening as they tend to come in no larger numbers than 1-2. If you have a follower equipped it becomes even easier. I'd like to create a mod that would make most bandits appear in groups of 3-5. The same goes for creatures, especially pack animals like wolves.

Eventually, once I have figured this out (I'm still learning the construction set) I'd be more than happy to write out the formula so anyone interested can self-mod this once I have figured out the exact science behind it. I know there are patch and compatibility issues with mods, which is why I'd like to see more people writing self-help mods with scripts so people can code themselves, instead of relying on ready-made mods that they aren't 100% happy with.

Please give meaningful advice, thanks

Best way is to tailor it to your own needs.

Go into Construction Set and go to LevelledCreatures on the left under the Actors section.

In there you can find all the level lists for NPC's and Creatures. You can change spawn amounts here.

It's easy, but it certainly won't take 5 minutes, but you can easily increase the numbers of spawns per spawn point and create your own lists if you wish.

I've done this with my own personal mod and it's much better. I have wolves and other group animals spawn in packs from 2 - 6 per spawn point. I have Bandits spawning from 1 - 4 per spawn point.

The scripting option is maybe more awkward and probably gives less desirable results.

Thanks Filly that sounds interesting, I'll play around with that and see what I can come up with. Do you have or know of any detailed tutorials (with screenshots) on this specific issue? I plan on writing one once I have learned as much as I can, but, if there's already a decent one out there, I won't have to.

No tutorial for leveled lists that I know of; they are fairly simple, more time consuming and fiddly than anything.

For the basic increase in spawn you are just going into a leveled list and changing the count for each entry.

You don't need to change all of them, as some will use others.

So one list that has 2 wolves might be used by another list. If that other list has 2 entries for the previous list, then you'd end up with 4 wolves in that list.

As an example, scroll down to LL1WildernessForest. This one has been used a lot, denoted by the number 321 to the right of it (321 places in Tamriel). If you open that up you'll see entries of both creatures and other lists like LL0Deer which is a list you can find if you scroll up and CreatureWolf which is just 1 creature.

If you change CreatureWolf to 2 you'll get 2 wolves at those spawn points. But, if you change LL0Deer to 2 you could get up to 6 Deer, as the LL0Deer list contains 3 possible entries of Deer of 1, 2 and 3 counts.

The way the lists work is that only 1 entry will be chosen. So a list with a Wolf, a Deer and a Minotaur will choose on of those three each spawn. It's good to put multiple number entries, like 1 wolf, 2 wolf, 3 wolf, 1 deer, 2 deer etc, so you get variation in numbers.

Kudos, that is v.helpful. I appreciate your input Filly

Just to clarify though; if I want THREE wolves but the spawn area also allows for THREE Bears, I won't get a mixture (1 wolf, 2 bears) will I? I'm hoping to create realistic lists where either packs of wolves or bears spawn in a set area, as in the wild they wouldn't travel together and I need the mod to reflect this.

Depends how you've set it up.

The best thing to do I find is to drag your spawn into the game world, say just outside the Market District entrance. Then create a save game just inside the Market District entrance. You can go out and see what the spawn has done, reload and repeat and see what kind of variation you get.

Without saying what list you have placed in the world and what the setting are and such, it is hard to say from my end.

An example of what you want would be..

1 main spawn list that is going to be in the game world, I'll call it MyNewSpawn

MyNewSpawn contains one entry of CreatureWolf set to a count of 3
MyNewSpawn also contains one entry of CreatureBearBlack set to a count of 3

MyNewSpawn will spawn either 3 wolf or 3 bear.

However, if you have a list inside of MyNewSpawn called InsideMyNewSpawn and that list contains 1 wolf and 1 bear and InsideMyNewSpawn is set to a count of 3, then you will get a mix of the two. Like 2 bears and 1 wolf.

Sometimes it can be good to use the a list inside of a list, like if you wanted, instead of choose 3 black bears, you could have a list that contained 1 black bear and 1 brown bear. That list could be placed inside MyNewSpawn and set to a count of 3 and you would get a mix of both black and brown bears.

Also, to create more life in the world, you could make a list that contains bears and the odd deer. So sometimes a deer would spawn with a bear and create what looks like a hunt pursuit.

Filly, you are the man!

Your posts in this thread are filled with a great amount of info and I've been taking notes. If you could, would you write out a simple guide for me to follow so I can implement what you have said? I.e. click ''this tab''>then ''this tab'' etc. You don't have to go too detailed, just give me a little more I can work with.

I also dig your advice about the two different shades of bear, and it's something I'll experiment with for sure.

I'm favouriting this page as you're really helping me here. THANK YOU.

How about create a list that mixes wolves with timber wolves? (can be applied to anything else if you want, like deer and boars or whatever).

The leveled system of Oblivion will cause problems with this approach however, because at a low level, the game will only choose wolves and not timber wolves. Only black bears and not brown bears. until you level up. But this is an example of creating lists within lists. It could be done for other things too. Like maybe stick to just packs of similar leveled creatures, like a pack of trolls or a pack of mountain lions.

First of all, create a new spawn list.

Easiest way is to double click an existing one, and rename the ID to something that suits your mod. It's good to use the initals of your mod or name so it doesn't conflict with other mods. (If you mod is called Creature Packs, you could use CP as the start of your ID. If the list contains Wolves you could call it CPWolf. I normally put AA at the start too so it always appears at the top of the list. So AACPWolf.)

Now put 3 wolves into it. Give one a count of 1, the other a count of 2 and the third a count of 3. You now have one list, but it's not being used yet.

Now do the same to create a WolfTimber list (use Timber as the second name, because then Wolf and WolfTimber will always appear in line, otherwise when you get many many lists you'll find it hard to find stuff)

Now create a new list and call it WolfPack (it will contain the other two you just made)

Now drag and drop the Wolf and WolfTimber lists into your WolfPack.

In all three, check that the tick box 'Calculate For Each Item In Count' is checked. (This means that if you call your WolfPack list 3 times, it will choose 3 seperate choices. If it is unchecked it will only choose 3 of the same thing. I think that's how it works anyway, it seems to.)

Now drag you CreaturePack into LL1WildernessForest and then you have a possible spawn of 1 to 3 mixed wolves.

A good think to note is to take note of how many of the same creatures are already in the LL1WildernessForest list. There appears to be 3 chances of Wolves in the list already. So you may want to delete those and drag your WolfPack into it 3 times to stay true to the original spawn ideas. Unless of course you want to overhaul them and do it your own way.

When making creature lists, it's good to stick to Bethesdas original plan, like you'll notice Trolls appear almost exclusively in the Forest, and Dreugh appear mostly in swampy areas etc. It makes for more variation.

You could then do the same thing with Black and Brown bears. But I don't know if black and brown bears normaly mix, but it's only a game.

You could if you wanted to, go through all the lists and turn all the levels to 0, if you want to get rid of leveling.

If you want even more variation in the game, try creating new creatures by renaming a wolf ID to CreatureWolf2 or something. Now you can change the wolf a little, like give it a slightly larger scale, give it some more health and stuff. Now you can add a new wolf to the pack who is a little bigger and meaner. Maybe create small ones and call them Wolf Pups. Or really tough ones and call them Mature Wolves or something.

With bears you can make bigger brown bears with more health and stuff and call them Grizzly Bears.

The possibilities are endless.

Once again, good advice Filly, much appreciated

And yeah, I was also going to experiment with scaling too, because, oh man, that Forest Guardian from KOTN, THAT was a beast and a half! I never knew what they did with that giant bear after you get the boots of the crusader, and I tried looking for him again but to no avail. Anyway, I'm going to play around with the scaling for sure and make one or two Giant animals that will have a large wander range and will spawn somewhere hidden in the forest area. I'll probably, like you say, increase out their stats a little for added effect.

I'm going to practice and play about with the construction set a bit, and try to get some of this to work (I'm expecting this to take some time as this is one mod I want to make good on).

Again my friend thank you for your invaluable advice.