SO, I wanna talk bout the Enclave. And perhaps some questions too >:V

So, as we all know the Enclave is a xenophobic, jingoistic, very genocidal group of the pre-Great War United States of America (dun you be talking bout any Commonwealths! Even with Fallout 2 being a bit clumsy with the whole *LE GASPE* plot I still hold it was the USA not the UCA. ..Ha UCA..).

An summary of their plan before Fallout 2 is as thus (And I'll be taking from games such as Fallout Tactics which I hold as canon.).

So, War hasn't happened yet. Bout too though! -BE PREPARED FOR THOSE CHINESE. Or not. Maybe the Italisn?- And thus the US begins creation of this vast system of Vaults, 112 vaults in all, that would save the "best" that it had to offer in the case that a nuclear war would happen. (I suspect the US would have one of those 'Six Minute' things too. Six minutes to save yourself~ six minutes over, NOW GO DIE) Which was a likely case, so guud for dem.

At the center of it all was Vault Zero - something to keep the Vaults together and make sure that the entire system had contact with each other after the conflict. And, hopefully, rebuild Umerica. Maybe restart humanity if need be. But, we have the enclave. Or rather the precursors. Now I have doubt over dike over here telling the entire truth about the Enclave being the master minds behind the Vault-failures. But we gonna get to dat later.

So War happens. But Vault Zero-short wires as well, and thus every-single Vault remains silent. The Enclave, too, have little contact with the Vaults. Now we can all imagine how that'd feel. They're already Jingoistic, but now they may have the feeling that with Vault Zero lost - every single one of those vaults may be in jeopardy as well. That, perhaps, they were the last of humanity in America. Perhaps the World. And overtime this develops into a thought process that, somehow, it was all apart of the plan. The Failure of Vault Zero, the potential and inevitable failures of the other vaults. All them. Yep. All apart of this 'grand Enclave design' meant to test humanity. And their test was already aced, they survived the holocaust and remained strong!

Time passes. Whole lot of time passes. And the Enclave now finds itself, what it'd consider, a hellish environment. Thankfully, it seems, that some Vaults have survived (such as Lucky 13). But there's also other things..Death-Claws. The F.E.V. Super-Mutants. And Ghouls. Ultimately they're out-numbered and their test is in jeopardy! Humanity, it seems, was on a losing scale. And with them already being xenophobic, jingoistic and megalomaniac before - this triggered the final phase. Genocidal. We all know the plan of the Enclave - the eradication of every single mutated person on the planet. Not in America, but the -entire earth-. They were going bigger than Hitler!

And so they believe that they can use the F.E.V. to save the Human race when it almost killed it (ironically I might add, and they may not have known it either. But perhaps they did, and their fear was more so brought about by the fact of the Unity almost winning. If it were not for the Vault Dweller...well the Enclave may actually be the last of the Human Race)

..But they don't. They get killed by their own weapons of war on their oil rig. ALL NICE AND DONE, LET'S MOVE ON NAO.

But apparently not!

And this is where I ask questions.

#1. So the Enclave's political and military leadership was in that Oil rig more likely than not. We know frank Horrigan was there, head of the Secret Service and all time bamf. We know that President dike Richardson was there and likely the entire Congress and Senate of this Remnant of the US. (Whose to say otherwise? With the fact of important military and political figureheads at these locations it's of no fault to suppose the rest of the leadership was also there to maintain order as well as see this 'Great Project' be completed. This was something the military and political strata knew about and wanted to see completed) And we know the Enclave are a little bit on the crazy side..Why did they not commit mass suicide? These are people that earnestly believed they were THE LAST of the pure human race besides those in the Vault systems and we know that apparently not all of those Vaults went too greatly. That they were 'fighting to take Earth Back' from this alien occupation that has happened without them knowing.

Why are the Enclave in FO3 being lead by a [VEHK]ing Super-Computer? Now I've played Fallout 3 many times over. went bad karma and good karma, did everything. But when playing Fallout 2 there's something in the back of my mind..how is it that without the military and political strata that if any remaining soldiers were left in Navarro - they did not try to continue it themselves (have their own quasi-elections) or simply kill themselves due to the fact the 'last,best,hope' for America was destroyed in a blaze of glory? Now while I could go on about the Enclave not knowing of this apparent Computer-President that came out of no where, but it's more so on the fact how are they still alive. The Enclave only survived the Great War due to being both apart of the Vault program as well as being the US state itself. In the case of war, the leaders try to save themselves first. The 'people' they care so much about second. But most of that leadership died off after the oil rig. And whatever remained would be grunts. People so brain washed from birth in this fascist ideology that they would die for it willingly on the command, they'd kill a kid without hesitation. They'd make Joffrey, The Mad King, Hitler, Pol Pot, Mussolini, The Young Turks, the American Settlers look like [VEHK]ing pansies in their insanity and genocidal tendencies. And they're still alive in Fo3 and did not go on a rampage between the games?

#2 - How, exactly, did the Enclave manage to move all their tech, supplies and men out east? I still have a hard-time believing the Mid-West BoS carbon-copy for idiots came out east (really the way the Mid-West did was by air-ship..It's implied the East Coast just walked. Since, really, they apparently don't have any air-technology up until Broken Still. No ground technology either.) but how did this nearly-on-the-death organization made up of whomever was not on the Oil Rig and do not have the faintest idea of both military management nor political management get from West to East in such a stable condition that they are able to basically conduct URBAN WARFARE with ease of just sending their vertibirds into Washington-DC?

More-over, are we to assume that this Computer (I'll call him Computer) just managed to persuade people that he was a person and could lead the Enclave to glory again? It'd be believable (kinda for like the first few years then it'd just be odd to regular soldiers and would-be politicans that they never see their president when they could meet and physically see president dike?) but it just seems out of place. I'd honestly think the Enclave would be disorganized and couldn't even manage to go east - there'd just be boogeyman tales of this organization that nearly destroyed the World.

#3 - Why was such a highly advanced computer be able to survive the Oil-Rig-Ka-Boom and yet not be on the Oil Rig? How were they able to move this Computer without anyone knowing that it was actually the President of the USA or that it could be too much in terms of power or supplies to keep this thing on 24/7. I mean this is a world that in the first game really nothing worked besides the Vault 13 doors, and the Secret Military base. The secret military base worked because it was both a secret and thus could have a secret supply of power. Vault 13 was powered by its own people who managed it for so long. The Glow could be turned back on, and likely because it was -bombed- that it hadn't used it's power supply in a while. How exactly are the Enclave getting this power to both fuel their Vertibirds, power the president, power everything within their secret base that they either likely built or found. And even so that apparently they happened to find this secret military base off by chance - it could only last for so long.

#4 - How was a new Enclave political and military strata formed when the old strata was not only long dead but also from the fact that likely these being grunts. And just learning into the military junk. Likely none of them actually knew politics besides American history or the President is always right. While there were engineers in Navarro there weren't any would-be politicians that we'd meet besides the President and we'd assume all the Political onlookers were in the Congress and Senate. Which were likely destroyed. So really, that means that this Computer is the only politician in the entire Enclave. How does that work?

#5 - Why did they Enclave not go BSOD? This point must really be raised.

#6 - Did we really need an 'Enclave' in Fo3? Did we really?

That's by questions and short-histoire lecon.

Taken from part of Autumn's dialogue at the end of Fallout 3:

"And what of the Chain of Command? When the Enclave fell on the West Coast, Eden was next in line for the presidency."

The "next in line" phrase is very important. As it is a direct reference to the Presidential line of succession.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_presidential_line_of_succession

Which, in short, is a method to ensure that the Presidency does not remain vacant in the event of an unexpected death of a President. Thus, the likely scenario is that Eden, after making contact with the Enclave on the Oil Rig following his ascension to sentience, was designated a member of the Line of Succesion by Richardson. When all the leaders on the Oil Rig (ie. the Presidential Cabinent and thus the other members of the line) were killed. Eden assumed the position of Commander in Chief and ordered the fall back to Raven Rock. Which may indeed have been fulfilling a Continuity of Government Plan initiated by Richardson in the event of the Oil Rig's destruction.

Can I prove with 100% certainty that this is what occured? No, because Bethesda wasn't terribly clear, as they usually are. However its a damn sight better explanation then Eden calling in to Navarro and saying "Lol I'm your President" and getting the response "Cool, sounds good to me."


Raven Rock more than likely has the ability to create weapons, armor, and even vertibirds in the depths of its production facilities. Anything else they carried via vertibird (possibly.)


He didn't. You need to read up on the lore as this is quite clearly stated in Fallout 3.

Eden was always located in Raven Rock, the IRL de factor headquarters of the United States Department of Defense in the event of a national catastrophe. Eden was the primary monitoring computer of the facility in the pre-war years and gained sentience, after which he made contact with the Enclave in the west.


It works when you get most of your population killed aside from the garrison in a mainland military camp.


BSOD?


Some will tell you no.

I don't mind it.

Yes. But a majority of those members within that article are dead. They couldn't be too far from the President and thus the 'line of succession' becomes 'whoever can take it'. And I really doubt any Enclave survivor would want be ruled by a Computer.

And really if it's Eden saying "Hey guys..everyone's dead and they said I'm President. So do not doubt me, mkay?" then I suspect those survivors would both accept but doubt him. Because, really, it's a free-for-all now and they'd want vengeance and to 'keep the safety of the Patrie'. Just not in a revolutionary way.


Eh. Seems too easy, and most weapons the Unity had to use the old weapons from the Pre-War era. Because it has a stockpile. I dunno about creation.

#3 is answered so won't question that.


But when that happens people get more harder to control and get very doubty and clingy to themselves. Ultimately I'd suspect that while now the Enclave would be a purely military order, I wouldn't doubt they'd go suicide out.



Blue Screen of Death.

Basically mind goes broke and they go all-out-crazy on everyone. And since they're already genocidal? Well that doesn't help the way to the BSOD path.

Basically, in terms of a mind set, the BSOD would be when your whole WORLD crumbles around you. And your rationale mind simply shuts off and the Id takes over. You become instinctual and blood thirsty. You won't go down without dying and you want to make sure that if you will go down, you're going to take a whole ton of people with you.

For the Enclave - basically the Oil Rig would make every other Remnant of the Enclave would BSOD. They'd go full insano and start a full-out campaign against everyone. Because these are grunts, not military commanders.

That's the point.

The line of succession was broken up to Eden. Thus, Eden was the individual who was "next in line" for the Presidency. Take a look at the wikipedia entry. If everyone up to and including number 17 on the list was killed, number 18 would become President.


Autumn Sr. was okay with it. Autumn Jr was okay with it, and apparently, Richardson was okay with it.

No reason why the Enclave would automatically shun a computer as President.


Except thats a terrible plot point. Richardson was elected and apparently had to struggle to keep his position (he makes references to campaign plugs).

Why the hell would the Enclave go across the country simply because some random individual called in and claimed to be the President now? Why the hell would they believe them? Its illogical. And rather than accept this as just another one of Bethesda's failings, I choose to explain it the best I can in a theory that holds some water.


Why? Its a perfectly acceptable explanation.


Really not sure what your point is though.

Is it why haven't we seen a bunch of remnants running around and killing random people because they've gone crazy?

First of all, because we haven't seen the Enclave past the events of Fallout 3.

Secondly, because perhaps they won't do that? The Remnants of New Vegas certainly didn't.

..But he isn't really #18. In fact I'd say it'd be more rationale and perhaps logical that this computer gain sentience after the destruction of the Oil rig and during the Interregnum of the Enclave.

That'd make more sense because dikey would not place a Computer at the Head of Homeland Security - rather just have the computer monitor the facility and have an actual human director. I mean from this whole 'Earth is Humanity's and I'm helping to take it back' speech I doubt he'd give power to a robot.


They pretty much view Humanity as the Herrenvolk and the rightful masters of Earth and everything else is a mutated stand that is not fit to live another day.

Really that point alone shows they would not openly accept a Robotic Head-Of-State. In fact we can see Autumn disagreeing with the 'President' on several issues. Ironically one being the Genocidal-Plot (I both question that and will use it in the argument).

And a accurate reason why Autumn Sr. would accept it was because it was a literal last option. And since I'm going to believe Sr. was either a coming-up officer who didn't quite be an all-time officer or a grunt but one who was pretty much a quasi-Alexander in term of situations - he pretty much knew there wasn't much he could do about it.

Take out the Computer - Enclave is in Chaos. Obey the Computer - there's no saying what's going to actually happen to the Enclave. It's a lose-lose situation.

And so he taught his son to obey and follow the orders of the Computer. Richardson thought he wasn't going to die in a ka-boom and gave the Computer the ability to monitor Raven Rock. If he knew? He'd place a human-successor at Raven Rock or somewhere on the mainland so a human would succeed him.

It's actually kinda like how the French reacted to finding out Edward III Plantagenet was next-in-line to the throne of France. They said that the female-link was invalid and chose the Capet's couins - the House of Valois. Because they did not want to be ruled by someone they did not view on the same grounds as them. Not only a foreigner but Avgevins. It could be even a greater insult that they inherited from the House de Normandie which betrayed France and took England, separating from France entirely.

Thus anyone who ruled England, even if they spoke French (the language of the North, not the language of the South), was not French to the French nobility.


Not like Vault Zero where you had not only war-bots but also had machines specifically creating new equipment for a genocidal war, but would this secret military base just be able to just easily produce weapons to a nearly destroyed Enclave?

Would seem better if they had to go out and search for supplies - showing the Enclave at a really desperate and dire hour. That they were an animal cornered at the wall.

To better explain on BSOD here's TV Tropes.


My view of it is when a really horrifying and mind-shattering event happens to the villains. In this case the Oil-Rig, and so they basically lose it. They have no composure, no morality, no mercy, sympathy, empathy or anything-athy. All they care about is killing you and claiming vengeance. Or simply taking you down so they aren't the only ones going down. The complete and utter destruction of the villain's or organization's..well organization. They just go on a murderous rampage of untold destruction.

Basically - why did the Enclave (somepeople already on the edge of insanity and crazy-vibes) not go through this? It'd be perfectly reasonable to see them go through it.

The Nazi elite began to betray each other, offed each other, surrendered to the west and everything. (Except surrendering to the East)

They just went all out and lost any organizational qualities they had left during the year of '44 and '45.


Same reason why the Enclave apparently has a base in the East, Same reason why a Computer is the President, Same reason why the Enclave still exists and same reason why the Enclave is ultimately something to draw nostalgia in.

Basically, this is a Bethseda failing and trying to explain it is like trying to explain the Star Wars prequels. A valiant noble effort but it just falls flat.

Because with what we know, A. Richardson would never play a Computer an actual persona for someone to head the defense of the Country. If -anything- Frank Horrigan is the guy of Homeland Security and Secret Service. Just because he's that must of a bamf and that his job implies to both protect the Enclave's interests both research wise, military wise and politically wise. He's basically the 'Darth Vader' of the Enclave. Someone with the ground troops to do the dirty work of the Enclave. And pretty-damn-good at it. But that's also a bad thing because it involves genocide.

This is why I kinda just boggle my head at the whole 'Enclave'..i mean already Bethseda is working outside a safe zone. There is no written lore besides the Fallout Bible which has got lore controversy on some remarks. (Ghouls and FEV+radiation or just FEV) You basically can -imply- events and -imply- lore but really both Fallout 1 and Fallout 2 only had lore concerning either relative past (Fallout 2 relied heavily on Fallout 1 for key characters and ultimately the plot as the plot was birthed by Fallout 1 and Fallout 1 merely referenced the Great War, some foundation of cities and the Master a bit. Really the lore became what you did, how your actions influenced the world. This was after the game - that was the lore of Fallout 1.) or just referencing things you -HAD- to know.

So Bethseda thought it could also do this. But it couldn't, and they added elements which were not necessary. This Enclave mess is even a bit-more mind-buggy when one considers the apparently 'masters of the Vault system'. So they would have done, like in Fallout 3, tried to take stock. And they only do in one particular event of Fo3.

And you're privy to the Enclave's official presidential line of succession in Fallout 2?

Hold on. I know whats going here. You think that the list I posted is what the Line will always be. You understand that the line changes with each administration right?


Except thats going against lore.

"In the decades following the war, I watched as the remnants of the government retreated to the West Coast. Awareness slowly grew within me."


Eden is not just a robot, he is a highly advanced AI with the conscious of a human and he shares the Enclave's (and Richardsons) goal.

The Enclave is (contrary to popular believe) not fanatically obsessed with humanity being superior to everything and anything not human. They are simply afraid of being destroyed by mutation. Simple as that.


And why not just assume command himself? If he's handing the Enclave over to a AI knowing that this computer should not be President, he might as well usurp command.



To what end? Why do this? And why would Autumn not simply rebel sooner than he did in Fallout 3 if this was the case? (with the understanding that he really did not rebel in Fallout 3).



He knew the capture or destruction of the Rig was possible. So much so that he ordered his soldiers that if he were captured, they were to shoot through him rather than allow him to be used as a bargaining chip.



You can't go out and search for vertibirds. They were constructed on the Rig and may not be able to make the trip east.

Likewise the robots of the Enclave are newer models than the ones encountered in the wasteland. Suggesting that the Enclave is constructing them.

Not to mention the APA MkII, which was obviously designed and constructed in Raven Rock. Or the Hellfire Armor which was produced at Adams.