Recent observations from Dawnguard may challenge the prevailing idea that Shor is represented in the old Nordic totemic pantheon as a snake:

http://cloud-2.steampowered.com/ugc/540684781189116936/ADA92641747E4D0CC4D7F5D26BA240B3D228020A/, as there are two reliefs close to the end of the dungeon.

http://cloud.steampowered.com/ugc/540684781189092446/CD6E92FA0D1A221FAFDAECD244A2A4C621261EA9/, here beneath a red banner of Arkay.

I wondered what these banners of Arkay were doing in this vampire lair until http://www.imperial-library.info/content/venarus-vulpins-research Redwater was a First Era spring sacred to Arkay.


So what are everyone's thoughts? I know I've considered assigning the Snake to Arkay before - since snakes have long represented both life, death, and rebirth in our own world. Not to mention that the priest-figure of the Snake seemed somewhat nefarious, which would fit with what we know of Orkey as being a antagonistic god of the Nordic pantheon. But until now, the evidence for Shor seemed to completely outweigh it. Now I'm beginning to have second thoughts.

And if we're not going to believe that the Snake is Arkay, why does he keep appearing in these contexts?

In all, the evidence presented by Dawnguard is pretty damning.

The obvious problem becomes "Then what is Shor?" (My money would be on the Moth, but then we have to say "Then what is Jhunal?")

Yeah, its time for another game of Totem-God musical chairs. My first suggestion would have been "fox", since that's been tied to Ysmir. But I like the idea that the fox is Stuhn as the "clever brother" to Tsun.

Gaaaah.

Edit:
Quick references for Pelinal Whitestake as a fox:

http://www.imperial-library.info/content/ages-man
http://www.imperial-library.info/content/adabal

Both of which were in Skyrim, I might add.

Interesting theory.

While delving through all those Nordic tombs, the three totems that pop up the most on the puzzle pillars and dragonclaw locks are the Hawk (Kyne, the "mother" of the nord race, possibly symbolizing birth), the Whale (Tsun, who guards the way to Shor's mead hall in Sovngarde, possibly symbolizing the afterlife), and the Snake. It's not much of a stretch to think that it could be for Orkey, the god of death as it would be strange if there wasn't a representation of the death god in a tomb.

I was going to point out that Shor representation as a fox is good when we consider Shor a "trickster" deity, but then I remembered that this isn't the human's view of the universe.

Maybe it would be easier to figure out which totems wouldn't work for Shor and see what's left?

http://i.imgur.com/0EU7U.jpg
(EDIT: Picture is credited to Saint_Jiub. Almost forgot.)

I'm personally inclined to go with the fox.

I'm still thinking the Fox is either Ysmir or Orkey because it suits them more.

Shor could actually be an alter ego for Auriel. Let's not forget this. The totemic religion had no concept of Akatosh, because the Nords believed Alduin was the dragon god. We know now that Alduin is a "son" and the meaning of that is open to debate. Those are his words, but as he is a Dovah something may be lost in translation. We're told in Dawnguard that Auriel and Akatosh are two sides of the same coin just as Shezarr and Akatosh are. So Shor could still be the snake if Auriel is the snake.

Ooooo.. I've never actually seen all of them in one place and up close.

Just for reference, they are in alphabetical order from top left to bottom right:

Bear - Dragon - Fox

Hawk - Moth - Owl

Snake - Whale - Wolf

The first thing that jumps out is the three shown in female forms: hawk, moth, and wolf. Hawk is obviously Kyne, Wolf (as has been theorized already) is Mara, which leaves Moth as Dibella.

The figure for the Dragon is actually wearing the exact same outfit the dragon priests wear. (ref: http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20120825000731/elderscrolls/images/9/9c/Hevnoraak.png )

The figure of the Fox seems to have an "X" shape across his chest - perhaps representing Shor's missing heart?

....Damn. I never noticed that before. Good eye you have.

Theory works nicely.

We got the impression that Shor be the snake mainly from the star maps and the Ra'Gada myth that Sep is a snake, but actually the whole Ra'Gada world is a huge snake and IIRC it is never stated Ruptga is a dragon.

Fox does fit Shor well. But one of the problems is, isn't fox in fact the weakest being in the views of Nords?


Yeah I remembered it wrong.
Then that's right. Shor being the Fox better than the Snake.

The Scaled Mane from Shor-son-of stands out as a glaring "What about this?" Then again, it's not a huge stretch to say everybody's part dragon.

Could the passage from the Volskygge riddle perhaps have a deeper meaning to it?

"The Snake fears all, The Bear fears none.
The Fox eats what it can, Preferably the Snake.
The Wolf fears the Bear, But only when it's separated from its pack."

Probably not, considering that everyone besides Magnar and Alduin (And Jhunal, when he's being an intellectual) are best buds in the totemic pantheon.

I believe that Shor is the snake, largely due to the scaled mane reference in Shor son of Shor, partly because Shor is related to Lorkhan and the symbolism of the snake-as-trickster (or, depending on how you look at it, snake-as-savior) is too powerful for me to ignore.

As for Arkay, I think it's just a quirk of the translation between the Nordic pantheon and the Imperial cult. Shor's role as benevolent caretaker of the underworld puts him on similar footing as Arkay in terms of his role in Nordic society. I imagine many of those halls of the dead in Skyrim were originally dedicated to Shor before the Imperials came in and homogenized everything.

What about the depiction of Tiber Septim impaling the snake seen at shrines to Talos? I thought the snake was supposed to represent Wulfharth in that depiction, with Wulfharth obviously holding a strong connection to Shor...

UNLESS...

...the snake represents death, and the depiction of Tiber Septim impaling it represents his achieval of overcoming mortal death by becoming part of the Talos oversoul and transcending. I dunno...

That's the Molag Bal aligned version of Tiber stabbing the Shor aligned version. Think about it - who teaches CHIM? How does Bal bestow his gift upon mortals? Talos was a vampire, son.

There is an engraved snake wrapped around the robes of Shor's statues in Sovngarde I think.

Also the Dragon totem is holding fire in an almost identical way to that giant Auriel statue in the chantry.

And Akatosh drew from his briast a burning handful of his Heart's blood, and he gave it into Alessia's hand, saying, 'This shall also be a token to you of our joined blood and pledged faith. So long as you and your descendants shall wear the Amulet of Kings, then shall this dragonfire burn -- an eternal flame -- as a sign to all men and gods of our faithfulness. So long as the dragonfires shall burn, to you, and to all generations, I swear that my Heart's blood shall hold fast the Gates of Oblivion

Shor is Either the Bear ( for the strenght and because the nords wear with the bearclaw armors ) or a Eagle ( but thats not in the pantheon seems ) because of the many eagle representation in the Sovngarde Main Hall ....

Arkay is Snake .

Makes a lot of sense that both the Nordic and the Elven versions of the time-dragon are portrayed in Akatosh.