I originally thought they was just a group within the Dark Brotherhood but I've since been led to understand they are actually an independent group to the DB who are recruited for the royal family of Black Marsh.

Being a part of Argonian lore is much more interesting than being just a part of the DB. I am interested to know all the facts

I don't think Argonians have a royal family, or do you mean the Hist?

Shadowscales are Argonians born under the birthsign The Shadow, taken at birth by the DB to be trained as assassins. As for the royal court deal, http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Scar-Tail mentions about serving the Argonain Royal Court.

Not sure. I remember something mentioned in Oblivion about them and the quest.

I'm sure someone said in another thread something like they were handpicked as they hatched by / for the king to be Shadowscales. I'll have to google it

Interesting. Not exactly how I pictured Argonian politics/government to be. I always assumed the Hist were at the top somehow, with each settlement centered around a Hist (which were more or less all connected anyway). The TES novels didn't mention anything that I remember.

Maybe it is some sort of puppet state forced onto the Argonians by the Empire?

I can hardly imagine imperial diplomats trying to engage in talks with the Hist. Could be an interesting situation. However, I should imagine that the Empire will be totally different (if it still exists) by the time that we actually go to Black Marsh in a TES game.

Isn't that what Annaig's father did in the novels? i just don't recall anything about a royal Argonian court.

Whatever became of the Shadowscales in the 4th Era? Are they now working for the An-Xileel, were they dissolved or...?
The TES Novels doesn't mention them at all, and those have a lot of story in Black Marsh. I can't find anything specific on that either on the UESP. Is there a text or something describing it?

Anyway, I believe the Shadowscales are assassins in service of the Argonian Royalty who often are adpoted into the Dark Brotherhood, and trained there. Some of them probably return to Argonia at a later time, or they stay with the Brotherhood.
I guess maybe assassinations in Black Marsh are the work of the Brotherhood in general.

On the thing about the Hist, aren't they revered like divine beings who more or less dictates the Argonians? Maybe there were a Royal family controlling the politics and stuff, who later were replaced with the An-Xileel?

yh. I just read on UESP

"In the http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Argonian homeland of http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Black_Marsh, those born under the sign of the http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:The_Shadow are taken at birth and presented to the King of Black Marsh."



Elder Scrolls Wikia says:

Shadowscales are http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/Argonian, born under the sign of http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/The_Shadow in http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/Black_Marsh. They are trained from childhood in the art of http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/Stealth and combat. Shadowscales serve their country as assassins. There have historically been used by the King of Argonia as a means to end conflicts and wars without major bloodshed.

Unfortunately both sites also suggest that the Shadowscales may be no more due to an in-game comment during Skyrim. I hope this isn't the case. Hopefully they are just no more with the DB but are still actively in service with the Kingdom of Argonia

I assume this only takes place in the more civilized areas? I doubt the hostile Argonians living in tribes could care less.

I know that general "Morrowindism" amongst Lore Fans dictates that Morag Tong > Dark Brotherhood, and I usually feel that way, but the Shadowscales represent a rather pleasing point on which they are opposed: the Morag Tong support the Great Houses which in turn support slavery of Argonians, but on the other hand the Dark Brotherhood rely upon and possibly treasure their Argonian members. I can't help but feel that this is a deliberate decision; possibly the DB chose to form a relationship with Argonia after their split with the MT to enforce their (more Imperial) identity.

That's not really the impression I got from reading the novels. The Hist had a very present influence on the ordering of Argonian society. The An-Xileel (sp?) were a unique political/social group of lizards because the Hist tree where they were at "went rogue."

The Hist are the only thing I imagine that unites the Argonian villages/tribes. The Hist have a huge amount of control over the Argonians, like mind control and hive-mind stuff.

And tgl already posted links about in-game mentions of the Black Marsh Royalty

But what about the Shadowscales serving the King of Argonia? The Mede Empire hold no influence there, so they could still flourish there. Maybe they found new masters?


My impresion though was that the the An-Xileel was the leading party of the country, the ones who listened and did the will of the Hist. So technically the Hist controls all, but the An-Xileel still employ assassins, in this case the Shadowscales, for more intricate political manners, something the Hist couldn't care less about. Positions within the Priesthood (what I understood them as) of the An-Xileel is a matter of politics and intrigue.

From the novels, it also seemed that the An-Xileel held a certain power over the Hist, by the way they were able to cut Hist-trees off from the network and make them go rogue. The Hist might be highly intelligent sentient beings who give Argonians their power and their minds, but they're not all-powerful. What if the An-Xileel dictates the Hist to do things while at the same time crediting the Hist and pretend to be acting on their orders? What if the top-tier of the group have "hacked" into the network of the Hist and control them to contorl Argonia? This is only speculation, but I believe the An-Xileel to be stronger and more influental than they want to let us know.

As the Dark Brotherhood were originally just a branch of the Morag Tong then perhaps it was actually the Morag Tong who made the alliance with the Argonian king in the first place.

Okay, that sounds good. But that hasn't got much to do with a Black Marsh Royal Court/Family.

The novel also gives me http://www.imperial-library.info/content/infernal-city-lore-notes#anX that the An-Xileel are only centered around Lilmoth and its rogue Hist. The novel said that the An-Xileel will only talk to that one tree, not the Hist collective that most Argonians in Black Marsh are connected to.

Yeah, I know. I sort of drifted onto that when we got onto the An-Xileel. But in-game sources clearly state that Argonia once had a King, someone we don't know much about at all. Argonians are possibly the race we know the least about the social structure of. We do not know to what extend he held power, to what extend he was related to the Hist and to what extend the was indeed a King who could somewhat gather the people.
He was possibly just an individual specifically chosen by the Hist as their main agent on earthly matters.

You are probably right, in hiding and such. Maybe the Shadowscales are pulling a "Blades", with them being thought they got killed off but a couple remain...

The Hist I take to be on the level of Dragons. Immortal beings that spawned mortal life, which they rule over. Like men were originally with dragons, this was a benign arrangement, with mortals more or less governing themselves except in matters that related to the immortal overseers. However, where Nords had an uprising against the dragons, Argonians remained complacent with the Hist.

Most of this has no real proof behind it, but it's a good fit for me.