Does Talos or Tiber Septim have CHIM

Post » Mon Nov 05, 2012 11:57 am

Does the oversoul god Talos have CHIM or does the Tiber Septim/Hjalti have CHIM
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Destinyscharm
 
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Post » Mon Nov 05, 2012 7:36 am

Oversoul Talos gained CHIM, through the actions of Tiber Septim, Zurin Arctus, and Wulfharth. Tiber Septim is and is not Talos, more or less, in the same way Vehk the mortal is and is not Vehk the god.
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sally R
 
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Post » Mon Nov 05, 2012 1:46 pm

Something like it. TALOS is ehlnofex for 'Storm Crown'. CHIM is frequently poetically referred to as a crown, of starlight, topping The Tower, at-once-also the cosmic egg.

C.f. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kenosis and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C5%9A%C5%ABnyat%C4%81. As an example of comparable religious terminology, not meatspace CHIM anologs.
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Richard Thompson
 
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Post » Mon Nov 05, 2012 2:53 am

"Having" CHIM is a difficult one, since many seem to prefer painting CHIM as a "way" rather than a state of being. And if CHIM is a different walking way to Mantling, people would question if Talos did have it, since he's a textbook example of Mantling. However, Mankar Camoran seems in no doubt that Talos did indeed have (or rather, know) CHIM and used it to "reshape the land".

But HQ's answer is much better than anything I can say, as it's a dangerous language and since we don't (or can't) really refer to Talos or CHIM in any other way than through the Ehlnofex, it's probably worthwhile to think of words as... words.
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Nick Tyler
 
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Post » Mon Nov 05, 2012 7:47 am

I'm actually not so sure. If I recall, the main source used to say he does is that Vivec refers to him as another master or somesuch in the 36 lessons of Vivec (I've not reread the sermons in months). However, I'm not certain two people can have CHIM simultaneously, because of the nature of what CHIM is. However, I do believe that, if you follow the Lorkhan sequence, someone in the chain of Talos instantiations throughout time will eventually obtain it.

or at least that's the way I look at it.
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Tiffany Carter
 
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Post » Mon Nov 05, 2012 2:17 pm

Mhmm... then we would have to account for exactly what Mannimarco did. And the Marukhati...

"As for myself, I was here and there and here again, like the rest of the mortals during the Dragon Break. How do you think I learned my mystery? The Maruhkati Selectives showed us all the glories of the Dawn so that we might learn, simply: as above, so below.” - Mannimarco

I suppose what I'm asking is whether you believe there is a difference between this sort of dancing on the tower/ascendance and CHIM. Even if there was, Mankar and the Many-Headed Talos both state rather specifically that Talos does indeed have CHIM.
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katie TWAVA
 
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