Snideness aside...

A few questions.
Was Mannimarco the first lich?
Are Dragonpriests a type of lich?
When did Mannimarco become a lich?
Why would Mannimarco become a lich if magic already extends his lifespan and he is one of the longest lived races in Tamriel?
What benefits would Lichdom grant?

Seriously though. Given the timeframe wouldn't Dragonpriests be the first liches?

Are all Dragon Preists liches though?

I mean, that ONE is called a Lich, but then again the Draugr are called servants of the dragons, yet many of them are in locations that suggest they come from a far later time.

But to answer your questions I think its
no
yes?
unknown
Liches can place part of thier souls in some form of containter as to make themselves practically immortal, like Voldimort form harry potter, magic can extent your life, but becoming a lich can make you practically immortal.

It's hard to say if the Dragon Priests are really liches, partially because we don't know what their phylactery would be. I've heard others suggest it might be their masks, which could make sense, but we don't have evidence for it.

Hm. I don't think so. He began in the Psijic order a little bit after the fall of Remans empire, so I'd be surprised if he did wind up becoming the first lich. Some of the Dragonpriests we encounter may be older than him.
I'd say so, though it appears the Nords streamlined the process somewhat. Certainly seems more consistent than most other's botched attempts.

Hm. Good question. Would the Psijics keep a lich around?
Immortality seems to be a good enough boon, and besides, he was pretty obsessed with necromancy.
Immortality is usually most peoples goal, though it also allows them more time to roam Tamriel, amassing their own powers and continuing whatever hellish pursuit they decides to cook up.

Hard to say. I wouldn't be surprised if each race has their own take on the process.

I was under the impression that Mannimarco was considered the first lich.


They brought to him these tools, mad wizards and witches,
And brought blood-tainted herbs and oils to his cave of sin,
Sweet Akaviri poison, dust from saints, sheafs of human skin,
Toadstools, roots, and much more cluttered his alchemical shelf,
Like a spider in his web, he svcked all their power into himself,
Mannimarco, Worm King, world's first of the undying liches.

Source- http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Mannimarco,_King_of_Worms

Could be a retcon, and handwaved as poetic lisense to make Mannimarco seem more "evil".

The book is written in song form, and exactly as a 100% truthful hisorical document.

Didn't see this before. Mostly, I'd say the God of Worms wanted to be a lich because of his ambitions. What those are, I can't pretend to know. I just always got the sense of him as being a very ambitious character. Maybe he needed to be a lich to become the God of Worms? Who knows.

I really do not think I can take too many more of these.

I thought I had bumped into an inconsistency. Seems I was right.

Well the book isnt exactly written to be a serious, 100% truthful, historical document.

It is a song after all, and songs are often filled with embellishments.

I think he being the first lich is mentioned elsewhere but I cannot remember where.

He always was a pretty dark dude to begin with though, so not much has changed there.

Also, that book first appeared in Oblivion, which also had a Lich supposedly many times older than he in it.

The Dragon Priests don't appear to be liches in the traditional sense, as their immortality is fueled by the life-force of their followers rather than by putting their own life-force into a phylactery. While a lich is immortal as long as his phylactery remains intact http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:The_Path_of_Transcendence, a dragon priest will die if not replenished by the draugr http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:Amongst_the_Draugr.

So I think we can say that Mannimarco is still the first lich, because it's not really the same thing.

I thought the Dragon Priests were just dead guys that were undead due to the way druagr worship them within the crypts? Didn't something mention that at some point? During life, I think the Priests were probably just powerful mages. I think becoming a lich is something started when you are still alive, not once you are dead. So you go straight from life to unlife, instead of life to dead to undead.

This kind of takes Arkay out of the picture, a big ol "F-U," which may be relevant I suppose. Maybe some sort of severing of one's soul to Arkay/Dreamsleeve is involved and the soul of the lich actually annihilates upon death rather than going to join the oversoul.

EDIT:



Dang, ninja'd

I meant in a MORE evil kinda way, like further vilifcation amongst the already dark image of him that probably existed. I should have been more clear.

What lich was that? my memory fails me.

What about Hevnoraak?

The sprirt valdar said that in lifeHevnoraak drained all of his blood to try to turn himself into a lich.

What about Krosis, all alone of that mountain?

Hm. I believe it was one the PC wound up fighting against during the course of Oblivions MQ in a Alyeid ruin. The name eludes me though. Or if he was even a Alyeid at all come to think of it.

Well, I guess his name is sorrow for a reason.

Hibernation in their sarcophagi. Essentially, going into power-saving mode to delay having to shut down fully.

I think I found the one you ware talking about

http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:King_of_Miscarcand

If he really is Alyeid he might be older then Mannimarco

It's pretty explicitly stated that after the transformation into a Lich is complete, the vessel the soul was/is stored in is inconsequential.


Not clear. The draugr, if the author is correct, do transfer some kind of energy to the dragon-priest. Does this keep them animate? Unclear. Also, as Kalamari noted, what about Dragonpriests that have no nearby draugr? Clearly the draugr are not critical to them.


There are several kinds of vampire, several kinds of ghost, several kinds of zombie, etc. There may well be several kinds of Lich. If we define a Lich as "a being whose soul is stored in a vessel so as to prevent it from being severed from the body upon death" it's entirely possible the priests are Liches. Particulars like whether or not they need to be "fed" by lesser undead may vary from one type of Lich to another (and indeed, from one particular priest to the next.)

But they are All the better, then. It's true immortality vs. half-life dependent on the cult.

If you choose to disregard an in-universe explanation in order to say there is an out-of-universe inconsistency with the writing, so be it. We can invent lore problems until the cows come home. But I will note, again, that the Dragon Priests are the only form of high-functioning undead we've encountered thus far with a pattern of long-term hibernation. This implies, to me, that they're preserving power when they aren't immediately needed or when they can't replenish every night (Krosis, for instance).

I would argue that the difference between removing your soul in order to achieve immortality is different enough from immortality bought from the Dragon God of Time and replenished by one's followers that we can call them different things. Again, if you disagree, so be it.