Not completely; and those that are 'just rewordings' also serve to verify the 'past topics' as valid, where before they had been simply vague ideas in the lore the Loveletter gives names to and expounds upon those ideas to give them more meaning and applicability. Its really irrelevant whether you join in as it doesn't cause 'us' to miss out on anything more than if you should decide to join. However, once you do enlist 'we' will accept you open arms and much kisses... :hugs:

Who says we want you? I'm not even sure we're big enough to be called a "throng".

As for whether it's profound or not, that's a statement people might make about it, not something that it itself makes.

Forget about the funny terms. That's for local colour. It's unnecessary as all ornamentation, which is to say it's not, and they're likely to be elaborated upon in future texts anyway. Most of the loveletter is interpretation of certain passages in the Sermons. What's crucial is that it tells us more about the cosmology than we knew before. That people go to Oblivion or Aetherius when they die and then get recycled. That this eternal return is something from which we need escape. That the Numidium, the Tower, the Enantiomorph, CHIM, etc, are all attempts at this escape, information that when combined with other texts, show that the means of escape can be seen as a struggle for identity amongst many (two headed gods, many-souled face of walkbrass, the many souls of the amulet of kings, the towers as symbols of cultural variance, etc) . The last step is to become the world that you are in a state of hallucinatory onanism. What's more, it also tells us what the future is going to be like, and it sounds kind of bleak.

Some of this was explored later (I think? I've never been sure which came first, the Loveletter or the Teachings) and more transparently in Vehk's Teachings. Still, I wouldn't call the loveletter pointless. If Vehk's Teachings are an explanation of the themes in TES lore, then the Loveletter is a personal exploration of them. I find the stream of consciousness bit at the end rather emotional and stirring. The writer gets caught up in his vision and begins to describe a thing only possible in languige liquid, plastic and dreamlike until finally any attempt at language fails, breaks down, and ends with a beatific summation; "GOD IS LOVE".

And it's also a birthday gift to Kurt, which is kinda nifty. And yeah, I like it.

Vivec's Teachings... I'm almost positive. At least I remember using them before I ever remember the posting of the Loveletter...

Me too.

Anything and everything that comes up in any lore (whether it be TES or our own history) that pertains to death and preventing it, stopping it, or embracing it is all from a fear of being nothing. That's human nature. To feel nothing is to be nothing.

Even the supposed heroes that come to copes with death still have that nagging fear that when they do die, that they will feel nothing and will have to face that feeling (is it a feeling?) for as long as they can remain aware. This is why I think religion is [censored].

But, as it pertains to TES, to escape the eventual recycling of your soul that it may be used to sprout new life is in the fear of feeling nothing. You really have to ask yourself (and possibly your TES alter-ego) if you could face spending eternal awareness feeling nothing.

-"instead it becomes akin to sensory deprivation, yet without the fear"
-"C0DA Digitals have confirmed that a subject in sensory deprivation begins to hallucinate after only twenty minutes. Scale unto this along the magical spectrum and maintenance of time, which is forever, and you begin to see the Lunar God's failure as Greatest Gift. As above, "This is the love of God.""

While it does have a point, you cannot explain what happens when you truly die. As I'm sure, those experiments were carried out on living subjects and thusly wouldn't have the same effect as being in the void and feeling nothing. And by nothing I do not mean the mortal perceptions of sight, taste and the rest don't compare to feeling nothing. It is harder to feel no remorse for what you may have done in your life, even though you demand it. The same goes with trying to feel happy feelings for those you have loved in your life.

The only true way to know how it feels to be in eternal awareness and feel nothing whatsoever. No pain, no fear, no happy thoughts, no bad thoughts. Nothing but memories.

We can also dispute the "love of God". What is it? To someone as blunt as a 300 year old mace, it means that God loves. He does not. Love cannot be expressed by anything but mortals. The "love" of God is actually a gift. Mortals are given the gift of love, and it determines whether your soul spends eternity in awareness or if your soul moves on to a new life in a new body. Just depending on what you do in your life, whether you murdered thousands of children or fought a war against all odds and came out victorious but not happy. If you can feel remorse, or if you can feel love, you are granted passage to another life. If you can feel neither, then you spend eternity in awareness that you will never feel again.

This is what gets me about the Loveletter. The way it is written, it seems to me that it was written when the divine power of the god's left into a single entity that more than likely exists. And when this power left the Aedra and Deadra (in terms of TES now), the One became all but powerful simply because mortals willed it to. The "love" of God does not exist, nor would he love any. For beings beyond the spectrum of mortals cannot feel what mortals feel. This is why the Altmer will never regain divinity and the Dwemer disappeared in the process of trying to gain such things.

I don't want to pretend I understand much of what you just said, but the God from the loveletter isn't Yaweh. Although the whole thing comes of rather Christian, guilt or virtue don't play a role. It is just another way to describe the last leap. Kinda like what is alluded to in semon 13.

I'm sorry to put this so bluntly, but that is a complete fabrication; this is not a 'your good in life so you get rewarded your bad in life so you get punished' kind of world...

Yahweh(the Jewish/Christan/Islamic God) Does not exist in TES neither does a proper hell. Although Dagons Badlands do look a lot like the image christans have of hell.

That's already been said. Do keep up.

Don't write that name down!!! It's too holy for the Torah, so unless we wanted to debate the divinity of TES lore boards, use abbreviations for YHWH's sake!

ALMSIVI is the tetragramatton for the Tribunal.

Just as PSJJJ is for whatever PSJJJ is.

Nothing's too holy for us, cept' for hawt pillow books.

ALMSIVI would be a Septagramatton

You've been gassed by the smokescreen. Hold you breath or you'll pass out.

Superficiality, and it's downfall...


Seems like the guy doesnt quite grasp the importance of the love letter, instead writing it off as either a fabrication or superficial, simply because it uses alien language components.


The real question on my mind though... What would the residents of Nirn imagine? All they have to go on is the experiences they had in the mundus-- would the universe they create by sublime, or tainted with the mundane?

Sounds dangerously like they would create the 'cloud reality" of the demiurge to me.

I asked a question similar to this one not too long ago. The answer I got was that the Godhead (this is what I got, not what I choose to interprety) is Hashem. But apparently he is sleeping and all our characters and NPC's are his dreams. Then it went on to say that CHIM is when you realize you are nothing but the dream of some thing, but since you are a dream you are God...it got really confusing.

Well putting it like that just takes all the fun out of it.

that should really be wrapped in spoilers dude

This is the Lore Forum, spoilers are our bread and butter... ^_^