Do you think that some separation between potions and spells would increase the value of Alchemy? Right now in the games the potions do a lot of things for you that spells do, with generally the same effects. In Morrowind there are potions of levitation and spells of levitation, the potions being there so you can complete the main quest with the Telvanni.

What if they usually did different things? Make the magical seem more magical, and the potions seem more body related. For example, light and night eye. I'd say a magical floating light should just be an illusion spell, but the alchemical solution would be night eye. You can do something similar between them, but there's enough space to make them worthwhile choices still.

Healing potions are over-used in my opinion, how about having them work over time instead of instantly? That way the magic can still work instantly, but there is an alchemical solution. What about cure disease potions? Wouldn't it be better if only potions could cure diseases, and restoration couldn't be that specific? It's better to have the fortify health ability with a potion than with a spell, but it's better to have a frost shield with a spell than a potion.

So generally, do you agree that separating spell effects from potion effects could make the potions more valuable? There needs to be much refinement I'm sure. Suggest other things in relation to potions if you have them.

Are we assuming spell scrolls are still in?

I hope not. They cluster-[censored] the Elder Scrolls games.

Because they want characters not versed in magic to experience it. Obviously for the people that don't make many characters, or just play warriors and thieves mostly. With scrolls and potions your never limited by your build.

That's why we have Gomer Pile types who can't use magic as the head of the mage's guild.

I'd say the flawed guild system is because of that. There aren't even skill checks, for instance.

I agree with the OP, a system like that would be very useful. it would also make alchemy much more useful to the average adventurer. also, it would make being a mage a different experience, which is good.

I agree they should be different. How? I don't know. I tend to shy away from the high-fantasy idea that magic is this all-pervading force that half the population can willfully use to materialize anything out of thin air. I like "magic" that has a touch of realism, like telekinesis, healing with your hands actually touching the body of the wounded (new age-y Jesus-like chi force acupuncture) or, for a perfect example, potions. To a peasant, a drink that cures a disease is magical even if there is a medically sound explanation for why drinking a solution of certain plants will cure your disease (or at least the symptoms)

I'd also like to see potions be rarer, so you aren't finding them all over and buying them by the dozen.

I would always MAKE them by the dozen. Or hundred, actually. Though to get around that you'd have to put significant tweaks on alchemy to weaken it a tad... I always chose it as a skill in Oblivion, because it invariably made me incredibly powerful. Things like requiring a flask, or some water, to mix a potion. Or more variety to the spell effects, or fewer for each ingredient.

I'd assume that, given your suggestion, you'd do away with elemental damages in poisons, should they remain, and go with effects like Poison (damage health), Blind, Paralyze, Burden and Sleep.

Something you bring to mind by saying make them by the dozen were the potions in The Witcher that were very small bottles. I'd say having a good quality brew of a potion with your equipment would let you make quite a few potions according to your skill.

Yeah, get rid of elemental damage in poisons. Having a sleeping potion would rock, you could apply it to your throwing stars or daggers to knock out the guards.

Great idea ! yes I think there needs to be more separation of spell/potions and what they can do, that just makes perfect sense to me. I also like the idea of adding more requirements to make potions and what about something like requiring certain high level potions to ferment before using ? Or maybe a system that you control where the longer you let a potion ferment the more powerful it becomes ? This would be a reward for your patience and seem to be realistic. But at any time you could complete the fermentation to lock in that potion level ?

Also Abthinthe82 had a very good and detailed list of suggestions with many sections touching on alchemy. http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1152946-official-ideas-and-suggestions-topic-3/page__gopid__16872809#entry16872809. The most important part here, to me, is that brewing takes time. You can't brew 100 potions while hidden in the corner of a monster infested cave (off topic but... why don't mobs move from one part of the cave to the other? So there's 10 bandits that LIVE WORK AND EAT in the cave without ever going to get supplies or loot or women or... and while I'm at it, the lookout's job isn't to assault every trespasser, HE'S A LOOKOUT he should alert the rest of the cave and they should all pounce you at once in a big counter attack unless you can off the lookout before he sounds the alarum.)
I also agree that random herbs you find wandering mundus shouldn't have explicitly magical effects (maybe the last effect or 2), but I don't mind magical ingredients that have magical effects as long as its fairly interesting game-play wise.

Nice thinking. I agree wholeheartedly. Different skillsets shouldn't give out the same results.

Good stuff Bob, and I like what Absinthe has to say. If we can get Bethesda to make an Alchemy skill beside a Herbalism skill, it would be good for the series.