I'd like a dice game. And brawling.

-Cards
-Darts
-Five Finger Fillet?
-Dice

And the option to cheat at all of them! :laugh:

Red Dead Redemption???

Need a bit more originality, or at least more focus on the theme....
- Tarot
- Dice
- Racing
- Animal Fights
- Brawling
- Arenas

Meh there are more, but the phone is ringing... Curses... Maybe some games of magic, the best at casting illusions? Perhaps a mages event first mage of 10 to get to the top of a spire and retrieve a scroll, by any means necessary =D .

Games of the mind, massive campaigns of war... Less of mini or side games though if you get like that, but you could once again use magic to simulate such a thing in game... Creativity is key.

I agree, if they are going to do something along game lines it needs to be something that fits as well as creative things that could fit. I would love it if there was a labrynth type deal where the game randomly generates a maze and you can either bet on a person making it through first or go at it yourself for a prize. There should be bounty style quests where you get tasked to kill some crazy dangerous monster thats been terrorizing some town.

It takes all kinds of folks to keep the world interesting, y'know. Some of us know what we like and are willing to stick with that, hope it's done well, and be happy- some of you just have to have a little of everything and are happy with widely varied mediocrity. To each their own, eh?

Seriously, I'm all for good gameplay- but I'm simple enough that I like my fantasy RPGs to be full of fantasy RPG gameplay. TES: FarmVille and Tamrielic Series of Poker don't interest me, so sue me. :shrug:

As for your biased, overly hyperbolic quip about logic- I could make the same sort of claim about yours, but really- why bother?

I definitely sympathize with Alois's thoughts on gameplay. There are few high fantasy games with this type of openendedness, but the core of what TES is, is dungeon diving and slaying the dragon (more appropriate now for Skyrim 'cause we'll actually have to slay a dragon).

But I also sympathize with the "More little things!" clan because my take on the high fantasy is the third side of the three major "classes" - the thief. Fighters dungeon dive, and mages dungeon dive. Their goal (at least in traditional games/settings and to a large extent TES) is to make as many things dead as possible on the way to the loot. As as a rule (at least in my strict playstyle preferences) my goals are to fill my loot bag without getting blood on my hands. And sometimes it would just be nice to go burn some time during the daylight hours sitting down and playing dice. It's part of the fantasy thief culture.

So I definitely support the atmospheric games (such as New Vegas sported) and things. I could personally do without animal fights, but I wouldn't jump atop the podium and preach the wrongfulness of it. It's basically that I don't care one way or another - either way I'm not going to partake, so there.


So in as strong sense as I can impart - fighters need swords like thieves need diversions. Get down to it - the warriors goal in life is fame and fortune, and he gets this with a sword. The thieves goal in life is anonymity and fortune - famous thieves go to the more famous gallows. And to achieve fortune thieves partake of the money scheming just about any way they can, and gambling is not an uncommon resort for such kind.

:D (Edit: grammatical errors that pestered me.)

I would quite like to see a duelling club of sorts.
Similar to the one in Harry Potter, it's basically where two mages fight each other with spells only. They could make it like a mage-only arena.

I'm dead honest I do respect your opinions... I'm just really bad at showing it as I'm clearly on the opposite end of the spectrum from you. If you got the exact game you wanted I'd probably still play and enjoy it. My only concession would be replay value, which would probably disappear for me...



This, is actually really true. I also play a thief in my opening games on all RPG's and their style of gameplay both in video games and in older paper pencil RPG's was interactive with the environment, playing mini-games, character interaction, and intrigue, and politics and such. Thieves enjoy their mini-games and thought provoking endeavors... Plus, when confronted with direct conflict and no way out, most thieves have the unpleasant memory of being thoroughly trounced because they couldn't sneak up behind their enemy. I think I'm actually talking about a rogue now though. Point is the same, this style of gameplay leaves much to be desired in a purely action adventure game. However, if elements from the game Theif were incorporated into TES, I think I'd probably return to my corner, and be content, and happily silent for the until the next release.

So...was Morrowind lacking in replay value for you? :shrug:

Touche, but different technology. Plus I never played a hack and slash character in Morrowind, the closest I ever got to hack and slash was when I skipped most of the main quest unintentionally after having gotten Keening and Sunder through all my sneaking and killed Dagoth Ur's heart. Other then that I spent my entire game sneaking around looking for people to steal from and things to steal. I found that thoroughly enjoyable in spite of almost never getting into combat. Eventually I trained my combat skills up, using the wealth I'd accrued. Point is my gameplay would have still benefited from the additions I add for greatly, it just wasn't necessary as there was SO MUCH STUFF TO STEAL . I guess if they did that in the next game I would probably get lost in my thieve hankerings, and it would be a much simpler solution for me anyways. However, once again the first game to deliver both that, and the intrigue of a more interactive world outside of combat would easily win my heart over TES, which would be a sad day indeed.

Ell-oh-ell-whut?!

Either the game's good or it isn't...unless you're hinting at being one of those folks for whom it's all about the shiny graphics and everything else is secondary, I can't see what the hell "different technology" has to do with it. In fact to really shred into the technology angle, the computer I played Morrowind on for years will run Oblivion. Barely, and it shrieks for mercy the whole time, but it runs.



So, you had no trouble occupying yourself for an entire game sneaking and stealing, but now you've got to have side-games and own businesses and micromanage shops to hold your interest? Only change I see here isn't in the game's technology, but in someone becoming very pretentious. :shrug:



So, if there's no shortage of clutter just like there wasn't in Morrowind or Oblivion, why would they be necessary now? :confused:

That would be great. Its something thet ive suggested for months! It makes the inns usefull for times when you dont want to loot or steal to make gold.

Would be even more interesting if Bethesda made their own gambling games!

Gambling like in the game "The Witcher" would be a great addition.

I never understood the witcher's system, seems like the 3rd roll was the only one that mattered making it way too luck based.
I liked FONV's Black Jack.

lmao... you sir should be a comedian. Bethesda has represented human trafficking, torture and extreme violence in several of their games if not all at the same time. And now you find it necessary to call into question the treatment of animals? Come back to reality please.

Mini/ side games would be okay, but what would they be that would fit into nord culture. Bloody Knuckles? Or "double dog dare" people to lick their metal sword while outside in the cold? Seriously though, there may be a few things that could work. A shooting gallery for archers (or even mages), dog sled races/ marathons, etc. Myself, I'll probably be more focused on side quests, marked and unmarked, anyway. I just find exploring more fun. Few games have made carnival style min games fun (Zelda and Final Fantasy are the only ones I can think of). One thing that could fill in that niche is a crafting system.

Its not about graphics at all, I'll give away graphics in a heart beat, but its naive to believe that technology can't add more to a game then graphics. The level of complexity in games is increasing frequently the entire concept of interactive physics engines which allow more creative use of imagination to solve gameplay problems was an innovation of technology. The radiant AI system as faulty as it is, is also a result of increase in technology. The programs running and the tech available in Morrowinds time was nowhere near capable of generating a world with the amount of fidelity that Oblivion had. Its not about graphics its about development time, the developers had to spend hundreds of hours making the land and placing objects like trees, in Morrowind, and the time wasn't wasted in Oblivion BECAUSE OF TECHNOLOGY. AKA my argument is now that the tech is better, and more of their time is freed to develop, they can afford to put time into more content, which they should do, its not that complicated, and the false dichotomies you are weaving to support your opinion are quite disingenuous.



You mistake me, they could easily make a game with the same depth as Morrowind, and occupy me for just as much time, but today the development time to recreate Morrowind would be only a quarter of what it was back then with the same amount of effort. In other words, the market shouldn't try and get away with the bare minimum to satisfy its customers, thats petty and ridiculous. Besides, if they took that approach it wouldn't be too long before other companies would come along and blow them out of the water. Further, good healthy discussion, is hardly pretentious, and we're just both passionate about our games and style of play nothing more .



Wasn't in Morrowind, but Oblivion had absolutely nothing worth stealing. Every character and his mother owned the same level of equipment at all times, and the only equipment available for heist was equipment available on the bandits outside town. In other words there was no satisfaction or point in being a thief in Oblivion, it completely destroyed that character type. The clutter you refer to is perhaps the meaningless, needles, scissors, orbs, and random 1 cent garbage found in every crate from the lowest peddlers trash to the richest kings personal stores. No legendary items were harbored away in civilized locations, but were rather all the prizes of linear quests which were primarily orchestrated through scripted lists, or combat of some sort.

Point is, if they make it like Oblivion, the thief isn't worth playing, if they make it like Morrowind it is, but tell me why they should improve gameplay for warriors, and give the same thing to thieves in every game? Is the game supposed to favor warriors more then players who like to play thieves, or is your personal taste coloring your vision to the point of being blinded?

Along with just about all micromanaging tasks (owning shops, banks, renting out properties), I'm against minigames. Usually they're tedious and take away from gameplay, a la Fable. If a minigame was part of a quest, that would make it better, but it would probably still be boring.

Fable is the worst example in history... Most recent and worst. There are games which are entirely based around this concept that are very entertaining. Using the most dismal failure in recent history as the primary reference doesn't lend credibility to an argument.