» Thu Dec 13, 2012 12:38 pm Nir the Amaranth, n°VI (6. The Walking Ways. 266)
http://www.gamesas.com/topic/1418914-vivec-god-chim-jerk-what/
http://www.gamesas.com/topic/1420494-hunt-the-amaranth/ The Dragon Break, or the Tower. 1
http://www.gamesas.com/topic/1420585-hunt-the-amaranth-ii/ The Enantiomorph. 68
http://www.gamesas.com/topic/1421045-hunt-the-amaranth-iii/ The Invisible Gate, ALMSIVI. 112
http://www.gamesas.com/topic/1422049-hunt-the-amaranth-iv/ The Corners of House of Troubles. 242
http://www.gamesas.com/topic/1426394-hunt-the-amaranth-v/ The Corners of the World. 100
Summary :
Ugly links, but potentially helpful in orienting oneself?
This is meant to be a basic introduction to this rather unwieldy thread chain. We are on a mission to hunt down the one person/place/idea in TES that has achieved the state of enlightenment known as Amaranth. If you aren't sure what Amaranth is, read Loveletter to the Fifth Era located here: http://www.imperial-library.info/content/loveletter-fifth-era-true-purpose-tamriel
For more contemplation, read the first few of these threads, where we discuss it ad nausium.
History of the Thread:
The Threads:
Index of Mk's Clues:
The Theories So Far (I've only linked ones that were posted with some evidence or sparked some discussion):
The Missing Witness:
During the hunt, someone brought up the missing witness of the Anu/Padomay enantiomorph: http://www.gamesas.com/topic/1420494-hunt-the-amaranth/page__view__findpost__p__21728907
And it was apparently very close: http://www.gamesas.com/topic/1420494-hunt-the-amaranth/page__view__findpost__p__21729109
At that point, the Hunt for the Amaranth became a hunt for the Witness...We tend to agree that there is a strong connection to the Elder Scrolls, and the Numbers.
The Numbers:
Also discussed:
The city as a symbol of Amaranth - http://www.gamesas.com/topic/1422049-hunt-the-amaranth-iv/page__view__findpost__p__21773088
The Middle Dawn having some relation to Amaranth - http://www.gamesas.com/topic/1422049-hunt-the-amaranth-iv/page__view__findpost__p__21803602
This is meant to be a basic introduction to this rather unwieldy thread chain. We are on a mission to hunt down the one person/place/idea in TES that has achieved the state of enlightenment known as Amaranth. If you aren't sure what Amaranth is, read Loveletter to the Fifth Era located here: http://www.imperial-library.info/content/loveletter-fifth-era-true-purpose-tamriel
For more contemplation, read the first few of these threads, where we discuss it ad nausium.
History of the Thread:
Spoiler
Way back in the Vivec = Jerk? thread, we got sidetracked into an arguement about CHIM and Amaranth. Suddenly, MK popped in to give us this tantalizing piece of info:
http://www.gamesas.com/topic/1418914-vivec-god-chim-jerk-what/page__view__findpost__p__21726655
Now it's all hands on deck to discover the identity of this mystery amaranthine.
Way back in the Vivec = Jerk? thread, we got sidetracked into an arguement about CHIM and Amaranth. Suddenly, MK popped in to give us this tantalizing piece of info:
No one has achieved Amaranth yet.*
(Toesock, sorry you took offense at the description of the demise of Barfok.)
*Except for the one being or idea that no one has found yet, which is still just sitting there.
(Toesock, sorry you took offense at the description of the demise of Barfok.)
*Except for the one being or idea that no one has found yet, which is still just sitting there.
http://www.gamesas.com/topic/1418914-vivec-god-chim-jerk-what/page__view__findpost__p__21726655
Now it's all hands on deck to discover the identity of this mystery amaranthine.
The Threads:
Spoiler
http://www.gamesas.com/topic/1418914-vivec-god-chim-jerk-what/ (Beginning with Eyesore's post on page 5)
http://www.gamesas.com/topic/1420494-hunt-the-amaranth/
http://www.gamesas.com/topic/1420585-hunt-the-amaranth-ii/
http://www.gamesas.com/topic/1421045-hunt-the-amaranth-iii/
http://www.gamesas.com/topic/1422049-hunt-the-amaranth-iv/
http://www.gamesas.com/topic/1418914-vivec-god-chim-jerk-what/ (Beginning with Eyesore's post on page 5)
http://www.gamesas.com/topic/1420494-hunt-the-amaranth/
http://www.gamesas.com/topic/1420585-hunt-the-amaranth-ii/
http://www.gamesas.com/topic/1421045-hunt-the-amaranth-iii/
http://www.gamesas.com/topic/1422049-hunt-the-amaranth-iv/
Index of Mk's Clues:
Spoiler
No one has achieved Amaranth yet.*
(Toesock, sorry you took offense at the description of the demise of Barfok.)
*Except for the one being or idea that no one has found yet, which is still just sitting there.
It's been a named thing/person/idea for a long time. And it's not something that exists only in Obscure Texts, as that would be cheating.
It's right strange that Nir is only mentioned once, innit now?
Closer.
"Funny that "Nir" in dragon-talk is "hunt"."
Great find.
Do you know who else is missing?
"Nirn (Female/Land/Freedom catalyst for birth-death of enantiomorph)/ Anu-Padomay (enantiomorph with requisite betrayal)/ ?* (Witnessing Shield-thane who goes blind or is maimed and thus solidifies the wave-form; blind/maimed = = final decision)
*Seek and you shall find. I hid it."
Closer and closer.
29. 2. 9. 11. 7. 18.
Then it gets all messed up with 4.5.
Off to bed, but it's a locked room mystery.
Quick rundown:
1) A person, place, or thing has achieved Amaranth, the New Existence
2) This annoying MK person says that the original creation, Nir, the Enantiomorphic witness figure, and a buncha numbers are important to locating said Amaranth
3) But he never said that this Amaranth dreamt the Aurbis as we know it, so why the importance of 2?
4) Whoa, the cops are coming again
"So Amaranth is not the Dreamer, is that confirmation?"
Not that Dreamer, no. The Amaranth has jumped past Tamriel, as in the purpose of the Loveletter.
Not true. The book Where Were You When the Dragon Broke is from Morrowind.
So's its out-of-time re-examination. Ahem.
I think we can ignore 11, 7, and 18.
You could.
If I supply a short video of a pantless Gabe Newell flogging a dead horse with a cat o' nine tails while muttering barely-cogent numerological arguments and occasionally shouting "HALF LIFE THREE CONFIRMED!", will MK give us the answer?
Yes.
(Toesock, sorry you took offense at the description of the demise of Barfok.)
*Except for the one being or idea that no one has found yet, which is still just sitting there.
It's been a named thing/person/idea for a long time. And it's not something that exists only in Obscure Texts, as that would be cheating.
It's right strange that Nir is only mentioned once, innit now?
Closer.
"Funny that "Nir" in dragon-talk is "hunt"."
Great find.
Do you know who else is missing?
"Nirn (Female/Land/Freedom catalyst for birth-death of enantiomorph)/ Anu-Padomay (enantiomorph with requisite betrayal)/ ?* (Witnessing Shield-thane who goes blind or is maimed and thus solidifies the wave-form; blind/maimed = = final decision)
*Seek and you shall find. I hid it."
Closer and closer.
29. 2. 9. 11. 7. 18.
Then it gets all messed up with 4.5.
Off to bed, but it's a locked room mystery.
Quick rundown:
1) A person, place, or thing has achieved Amaranth, the New Existence
2) This annoying MK person says that the original creation, Nir, the Enantiomorphic witness figure, and a buncha numbers are important to locating said Amaranth
3) But he never said that this Amaranth dreamt the Aurbis as we know it, so why the importance of 2?
4) Whoa, the cops are coming again
"So Amaranth is not the Dreamer, is that confirmation?"
Not that Dreamer, no. The Amaranth has jumped past Tamriel, as in the purpose of the Loveletter.
Not true. The book Where Were You When the Dragon Broke is from Morrowind.
So's its out-of-time re-examination. Ahem.
I think we can ignore 11, 7, and 18.
You could.
If I supply a short video of a pantless Gabe Newell flogging a dead horse with a cat o' nine tails while muttering barely-cogent numerological arguments and occasionally shouting "HALF LIFE THREE CONFIRMED!", will MK give us the answer?
Yes.
The Theories So Far (I've only linked ones that were posted with some evidence or sparked some discussion):
Spoiler
The Dreamer (of the current Aurbis) - confirmed false by MK
Dagoth Ur - http://www.gamesas.com/topic/1418914-vivec-god-chim-jerk-what/page__view__findpost__p__21726929
Mankar Camoran - http://www.gamesas.com/topic/1418914-vivec-god-chim-jerk-what/page__view__findpost__p__21728708
Hist - http://www.gamesas.com/topic/1418914-vivec-god-chim-jerk-what/page__view__findpost__p__21728756
Nir - http://www.gamesas.com/topic/1418914-vivec-god-chim-jerk-what/page__view__findpost__p__21728787
Alessia - http://www.gamesas.com/topic/1418914-vivec-god-chim-jerk-what/page__view__findpost__p__21728470, http://www.gamesas.com/topic/1420585-hunt-the-amaranth-ii/page__view__findpost__p__21738475, http://www.gamesas.com/topic/1420585-hunt-the-amaranth-ii/page__view__findpost__p__21738560
Sithis/The Void - http://www.gamesas.com/topic/1420494-hunt-the-amaranth/page__view__findpost__p__21729086, http://www.gamesas.com/topic/1420494-hunt-the-amaranth/page__view__findpost__p__21729330
The Elder Scrolls - http://www.gamesas.com/topic/1420494-hunt-the-amaranth/page__view__findpost__p__21729131, http://www.gamesas.com/topic/1420494-hunt-the-amaranth/page__view__findpost__p__21729183, http://www.gamesas.com/topic/1420494-hunt-the-amaranth/page__view__findpost__p__21729212, http://www.gamesas.com/topic/1420494-hunt-the-amaranth/page__view__findpost__p__21729331
Mnemoli - http://www.gamesas.com/topic/1420494-hunt-the-amaranth/page__view__findpost__p__21729125, http://www.gamesas.com/topic/1421045-hunt-the-amaranth-iii/page__view__findpost__p__21760289, http://www.gamesas.com/topic/1421045-hunt-the-amaranth-iii/page__view__findpost__p__21761146, http://www.gamesas.com/topic/1422049-hunt-the-amaranth-iv/page__view__findpost__p__21804143
The Sun - http://www.gamesas.com/topic/1420494-hunt-the-amaranth/page__view__findpost__p__21729296, http://www.gamesas.com/topic/1421045-hunt-the-amaranth-iii/page__view__findpost__p__21753359, http://www.gamesas.com/topic/1422049-hunt-the-amaranth-iv/page__view__findpost__p__21771725
Chimere Graegyn - http://www.gamesas.com/topic/1420494-hunt-the-amaranth/page__view__findpost__p__21730512
Love/Dibella/Mara - http://www.gamesas.com/topic/1420585-hunt-the-amaranth-ii/page__view__findpost__p__21731693, http://www.gamesas.com/topic/1420585-hunt-the-amaranth-ii/page__view__findpost__p__21734577, http://www.gamesas.com/topic/1420585-hunt-the-amaranth-ii/page__view__findpost__p__21737570, http://www.gamesas.com/topic/1420585-hunt-the-amaranth-ii/page__view__findpost__p__21738448
The Scarab-Framer - http://www.gamesas.com/topic/1420585-hunt-the-amaranth-ii/page__view__findpost__p__21731914
The Prisoner - http://www.gamesas.com/topic/1420585-hunt-the-amaranth-ii/page__view__findpost__p__21736280
The Dwemer - http://www.gamesas.com/topic/1421045-hunt-the-amaranth-iii/page__view__findpost__p__21754841, http://www.gamesas.com/topic/1421045-hunt-the-amaranth-iii/page__view__findpost__p__21755192, http://www.gamesas.com/topic/1421045-hunt-the-amaranth-iii/page__view__findpost__p__21755832
Anuiel - http://www.gamesas.com/topic/1421045-hunt-the-amaranth-iii/page__view__findpost__p__21763001
The Serpent - http://www.gamesas.com/topic/1422049-hunt-the-amaranth-iv/page__view__findpost__p__21802316, http://www.gamesas.com/topic/1422049-hunt-the-amaranth-iv/page__view__findpost__p__21806548
The Dreamer (of the current Aurbis) - confirmed false by MK
Dagoth Ur - http://www.gamesas.com/topic/1418914-vivec-god-chim-jerk-what/page__view__findpost__p__21726929
Mankar Camoran - http://www.gamesas.com/topic/1418914-vivec-god-chim-jerk-what/page__view__findpost__p__21728708
Hist - http://www.gamesas.com/topic/1418914-vivec-god-chim-jerk-what/page__view__findpost__p__21728756
Nir - http://www.gamesas.com/topic/1418914-vivec-god-chim-jerk-what/page__view__findpost__p__21728787
Alessia - http://www.gamesas.com/topic/1418914-vivec-god-chim-jerk-what/page__view__findpost__p__21728470, http://www.gamesas.com/topic/1420585-hunt-the-amaranth-ii/page__view__findpost__p__21738475, http://www.gamesas.com/topic/1420585-hunt-the-amaranth-ii/page__view__findpost__p__21738560
Sithis/The Void - http://www.gamesas.com/topic/1420494-hunt-the-amaranth/page__view__findpost__p__21729086, http://www.gamesas.com/topic/1420494-hunt-the-amaranth/page__view__findpost__p__21729330
The Elder Scrolls - http://www.gamesas.com/topic/1420494-hunt-the-amaranth/page__view__findpost__p__21729131, http://www.gamesas.com/topic/1420494-hunt-the-amaranth/page__view__findpost__p__21729183, http://www.gamesas.com/topic/1420494-hunt-the-amaranth/page__view__findpost__p__21729212, http://www.gamesas.com/topic/1420494-hunt-the-amaranth/page__view__findpost__p__21729331
Mnemoli - http://www.gamesas.com/topic/1420494-hunt-the-amaranth/page__view__findpost__p__21729125, http://www.gamesas.com/topic/1421045-hunt-the-amaranth-iii/page__view__findpost__p__21760289, http://www.gamesas.com/topic/1421045-hunt-the-amaranth-iii/page__view__findpost__p__21761146, http://www.gamesas.com/topic/1422049-hunt-the-amaranth-iv/page__view__findpost__p__21804143
The Sun - http://www.gamesas.com/topic/1420494-hunt-the-amaranth/page__view__findpost__p__21729296, http://www.gamesas.com/topic/1421045-hunt-the-amaranth-iii/page__view__findpost__p__21753359, http://www.gamesas.com/topic/1422049-hunt-the-amaranth-iv/page__view__findpost__p__21771725
Chimere Graegyn - http://www.gamesas.com/topic/1420494-hunt-the-amaranth/page__view__findpost__p__21730512
Love/Dibella/Mara - http://www.gamesas.com/topic/1420585-hunt-the-amaranth-ii/page__view__findpost__p__21731693, http://www.gamesas.com/topic/1420585-hunt-the-amaranth-ii/page__view__findpost__p__21734577, http://www.gamesas.com/topic/1420585-hunt-the-amaranth-ii/page__view__findpost__p__21737570, http://www.gamesas.com/topic/1420585-hunt-the-amaranth-ii/page__view__findpost__p__21738448
The Scarab-Framer - http://www.gamesas.com/topic/1420585-hunt-the-amaranth-ii/page__view__findpost__p__21731914
The Prisoner - http://www.gamesas.com/topic/1420585-hunt-the-amaranth-ii/page__view__findpost__p__21736280
The Dwemer - http://www.gamesas.com/topic/1421045-hunt-the-amaranth-iii/page__view__findpost__p__21754841, http://www.gamesas.com/topic/1421045-hunt-the-amaranth-iii/page__view__findpost__p__21755192, http://www.gamesas.com/topic/1421045-hunt-the-amaranth-iii/page__view__findpost__p__21755832
Anuiel - http://www.gamesas.com/topic/1421045-hunt-the-amaranth-iii/page__view__findpost__p__21763001
The Serpent - http://www.gamesas.com/topic/1422049-hunt-the-amaranth-iv/page__view__findpost__p__21802316, http://www.gamesas.com/topic/1422049-hunt-the-amaranth-iv/page__view__findpost__p__21806548
The Missing Witness:
During the hunt, someone brought up the missing witness of the Anu/Padomay enantiomorph: http://www.gamesas.com/topic/1420494-hunt-the-amaranth/page__view__findpost__p__21728907
And it was apparently very close: http://www.gamesas.com/topic/1420494-hunt-the-amaranth/page__view__findpost__p__21729109
Spoiler
http://www.gamesas.com/topic/1420494-hunt-the-amaranth/page__view__findpost__p__21729022
http://www.gamesas.com/topic/1420494-hunt-the-amaranth/page__view__findpost__p__21729080
http://www.gamesas.com/topic/1420494-hunt-the-amaranth/page__view__findpost__p__21729093
http://www.gamesas.com/topic/1420494-hunt-the-amaranth/page__view__findpost__p__21729161
http://www.gamesas.com/topic/1420494-hunt-the-amaranth/page__view__findpost__p__21731002
http://www.gamesas.com/topic/1420494-hunt-the-amaranth/page__view__findpost__p__21729022
http://www.gamesas.com/topic/1420494-hunt-the-amaranth/page__view__findpost__p__21729080
http://www.gamesas.com/topic/1420494-hunt-the-amaranth/page__view__findpost__p__21729093
http://www.gamesas.com/topic/1420494-hunt-the-amaranth/page__view__findpost__p__21729161
http://www.gamesas.com/topic/1420494-hunt-the-amaranth/page__view__findpost__p__21731002
It can. From a hidden hall in the Temple:
The Amaranth is the new universe that will have no witness but itself and its parents (who will be forgotten as relics of the last of the old kind of kalpas).
The Amaranth is the new universe that will have no witness but itself and its parents (who will be forgotten as relics of the last of the old kind of kalpas).
At that point, the Hunt for the Amaranth became a hunt for the Witness...We tend to agree that there is a strong connection to the Elder Scrolls, and the Numbers.
The Numbers:
Spoiler
This lead into a discussion of the 29th Lesson of Vivec, and MK popped in to say:
The above numbers translate to this:
The Captive Sage
The Enantiomorph
The Missing.
The Number of the Master.
The Sword at the Center
The Egg, or Six Times the Wise.
The point between The Corners of House of Troubles and The Corners of the World.
Two ways of looking at the relationship between the numbers:
http://www.gamesas.com/topic/1420494-hunt-the-amaranth/page__view__findpost__p__21729251
http://www.gamesas.com/topic/1420585-hunt-the-amaranth-ii/page__view__findpost__p__21733248
Lady Nerevar on the numbers:
and this http://www.gamesas.com/topic/1420494-hunt-the-amaranth/page__view__findpost__p__21729326
Here were some of my initial attempts to understand them:
http://www.gamesas.com/topic/1420585-hunt-the-amaranth-ii/page__view__findpost__p__21731460. MK sent me a message expressing approval at the numerological interpretation of 11, but since he didn't post on the thread, it might not mean anything.
Here's some numerological interpretations of the numbers:
http://www.gamesas.com/topic/1421045-hunt-the-amaranth-iii/page__view__findpost__p__21757407,
http://www.gamesas.com/topic/1421045-hunt-the-amaranth-iii/page__view__findpost__p__21761066,
My lengthy arguement for Amaranth = 18, plus some puzzling over the sword at the center: http://www.gamesas.com/topic/1422049-hunt-the-amaranth-iv/page__view__findpost__p__21772130,
http://www.gamesas.com/topic/1422049-hunt-the-amaranth-iv/page__view__findpost__p__21798234
"The presence of deaf witness, this is what the numbers are. They hang onto the Aurbis as the last nostalgia of their godhood." The 29th.
These numbers, these concepts that make up the world, bear witness to what made them.
These numbers, these concepts that make up the world, bear witness to what made them.
This lead into a discussion of the 29th Lesson of Vivec, and MK popped in to say:
29. 2. 9. 11. 7. 18. Then it gets all messed up with 4.5.
The above numbers translate to this:
The Captive Sage
The Enantiomorph
The Missing.
The Number of the Master.
The Sword at the Center
The Egg, or Six Times the Wise.
The point between The Corners of House of Troubles and The Corners of the World.
Two ways of looking at the relationship between the numbers:
http://www.gamesas.com/topic/1420494-hunt-the-amaranth/page__view__findpost__p__21729251
http://www.gamesas.com/topic/1420585-hunt-the-amaranth-ii/page__view__findpost__p__21733248
Lady Nerevar on the numbers:
I don't think the exact identity of the numbers is important, just that they're there as witness. The concept witnessing its own creation, solidifying as an ideal and therefore instantly obsolete.
But that's because I hate numbers
But that's because I hate numbers
and this http://www.gamesas.com/topic/1420494-hunt-the-amaranth/page__view__findpost__p__21729326
Here were some of my initial attempts to understand them:
http://www.gamesas.com/topic/1420585-hunt-the-amaranth-ii/page__view__findpost__p__21731460. MK sent me a message expressing approval at the numerological interpretation of 11, but since he didn't post on the thread, it might not mean anything.
Here's some numerological interpretations of the numbers:
http://www.gamesas.com/topic/1421045-hunt-the-amaranth-iii/page__view__findpost__p__21757407,
http://www.gamesas.com/topic/1421045-hunt-the-amaranth-iii/page__view__findpost__p__21761066,
My lengthy arguement for Amaranth = 18, plus some puzzling over the sword at the center: http://www.gamesas.com/topic/1422049-hunt-the-amaranth-iv/page__view__findpost__p__21772130,
http://www.gamesas.com/topic/1422049-hunt-the-amaranth-iv/page__view__findpost__p__21798234
Also discussed:
The city as a symbol of Amaranth - http://www.gamesas.com/topic/1422049-hunt-the-amaranth-iv/page__view__findpost__p__21773088
The Middle Dawn having some relation to Amaranth - http://www.gamesas.com/topic/1422049-hunt-the-amaranth-iv/page__view__findpost__p__21803602
What's New ?
http://www.gamesas.com/topic/1426394-hunt-the-amaranth-v/page__view__findpost__p__21915892
http://www.gamesas.com/topic/1426394-hunt-the-amaranth-v/page__view__findpost__p__21918557
And the return of the Elk
close
