There are very few NPCs that I think of as beautiful, or good looking.
I think most faces in Oblivion look much the same, so it's kinda easy to call "most" NPCs ugly, even though a lot of them might really look okay.
I've not played Oblivion in a while because my computer won't work properly... so I don't really have a fresh memory of the NPCs.

So... I'll admit that I exaggerated a bit in my last post when calling most NPCs ugly. Most of them are not really ugly, but just really boring in their appearance.

But I still think that making a character look just the way you want him/her is way too hard.
...especially when moving one slider will move another slider that controlled a facial feature I was satisfied with. <_<

Yeah my characters tend to be pretty much on the um... "plain side." But in trying to make a Breton look like an Imperial I actually made a character who didn't look half bad.

I agree.... it baffles me. Yeah... I don't think there are any fashion-model-beautiful characters out there, or at least none that I can think of right off, but I didn't see any fashion-model-beautiful people in the real world today either. They're a rarity, and that's fine. I wouldn't expect anything else. But the characters who are apparently supposed to be attractive generally are, and the ones who aren't generally aren't. I wouldn't expect anything other than that either.

There was a link earlier to Jensine-- of course Jensine isn't pretty. She's a frumpy Nordish pawnbroker. I wouldn't expect her to be anything other than drab. And Cyrodiil's full of such people. So's the real world. I'm fine with that.

As has been said repeatedly, I think it's just a shame that there isn't a bit more variety between faces (and bodies) and a bit more uniformity in each one. If anything, I'd honestly rather see even more unattractive characters-- characters with notably irregular features, rather than the sort of bland regularity that's dictated by the interaction of the facegen sliders. If that could be extended to bodies, that much the better-- tall, short, fat, skinny.... And it'd be nice if the skintones were actually even (unless made otherwise) and actually matched the body tones.

I expect V to do a much better job of that.

If body features could be changed in V than u can expect one of my characters to be a fat Orc or somethin of the sort...just somethin that makes u laugh as the incredibly fat character runs and jumps beyond its chubby abilities

I agree, I would rather see an incredibly odd person than so much...blandness

*sigh* Again, I disagree. I think we're so constantly bombarded with pictures of this month's latest supermodel/celebrity that we don't even recognize beauty anymore. If actresses and models are our standard then, yes, Jensine will not fit the criterion of beauty. But as I said earlier, I think Jensine is pretty. I also do not think that she's frumpy. My gods, I feel sorry for poor Jensine. I would not like to be judged as harshly as she is being judged in this thread.

How are we to discuss this topic if we can't even agree on the definition of "good looking?" Some of us think Oblivion NPCs look ugly. Others think they look real. I think it's kind of a sad commentary on our tastes nowadays when real or average representations of the human face are considered, by a certain percentage of us, to be ugly.

I don't know. I think, for my own sanity and for the sake of my blood pressure that I had best stay out of this thread from now on.

I couldn't agree more. I also find it quite sad that people with realistic appereances are branded as ugly or boring.

I find Jensine to be a fine looking Nordic woman. Much more importantly, she is pleasant and has always been kind to my character.

Perceptions matter so much here. My character, Buffy, is unhappy with her appearance and envious of how her friends look. Interestingly enough, her friends are unhappy with their own appearance and envious of Buffy. The only woman in the game Buffy has met who seems truly satisfied in her own skin is her dear friend, Mazoga.

Buffy touches on that attitude of mutual envy, with her friend Ardaline, in this snip from her journal:
* * *
"Buffy, I missed you so much."

I was swept into a sea of green and blue fabric by the fierce hug. My own bow and quiver were being crushed into my back. Arrow tails, and the upper portion of the bow's staff, prevented me from lifting or even turning my head. My face was trapped between two briasts. "Mmphmh. . . ."

"Oops, sorry." Ardaline released me quickly. "I can't even hug you without smothering you. I wish I was petite, like you."

I looked up to see a flush of pink climb above the neckline of my friend's dress to join her natural golden skin tone. "It's my fault, Ardaline," I pouted. "I can barely touch the floor with my feet when sitting in most chairs. I wish I was statuesque, like you. In fact, I wish I had your gracefully curved ears instead of these big pointy horse things." I tugged unhappily on one of my ears.

"Well, I wish I didn't have to look down at every boy in town." The high elf held up her large graceful hands to display them, then grasped a handful of green fabric and slightly raised the hem of her skirt as she looked towards the floor. "And I'd give anything to have little delicate hands and feet like you." Suddenly, our eyes met and we both giggled.

Ardaline said, "I know Kud-Ei would shake her head and say there's a lesson here for both of us." The normally shy elf's face then burst into an impish grin. She opened her eyes very wide and pretended to hold a tea cup in her hand. With her best Argonian imitation of our guild head, she stated, "When are you girls going to learn to be satisfied with what Mara gave you?"

"Oh," I had to stop laughing before I could talk, "I know. She'd probably say we wouldn't be happy unless we both had tails."

From Buffy's scrapbook: http://i668.photobucket.com/albums/vv43/Acadian6/Cho%20Bk%201/ScreenShot609.jpg * * *

I actually can make pretty good looking characters in Vanilla. You just gotta have patience, save sometimes before you make a change to the face model. My current character is a female Wood Elf and I made the face model look really good. If you take away the ears she would look like an Imperial.

It would appear that you entirely missed the point of my post.

I'll presume that that's because I wrote it poorly and just leave it at that.

That is because there are no fashion-model beauties in the real world. All those women you see in movies and magazines are not real. They start with hours in a makeup chair, then after all the pictures are taken they are airbrushed to take out anything that might be conceived as an imperfection. Often even the shape of their body is changed to make them look more slender, at least in the waist (because after all, a woman who weighs 120 lbs is a whale... ), or otherwise change how they look. Yet this is the literally impossible standard all women are held to. It is no wonder that eating disorders are so common among teens.

So are most Earthlings.


Kinda off-topic but out of all the Oblivion NPCs, Keld of the Isles (Cheydinhal Fighter's Guild) is a heartstopper for me. First time I spoke to him, I was like "habubba habubba hbubba" :tounge-tied: Was really sad that he only gets like 2 lines to deliver (Cheydinhal and Rumors I think) and that's it. My paladin character really wants him to join her side...... At battle, of course. :blush:




Funny, I've always found Jensine to be rather rude and cold, even if I'm playin a Nord character who supposeedly gets a better disposition for the racial similarity.

While I agree on principle as what you describe is true, I see all kinds of beautiful people in real life, even model beauty too ( not catwalk high fashion size 0 models though ).
I see all races, genders, and sixes, just as you see in Oblivion.
Its true looks and beauty are subjective, and illusion / make up / air brushing / surgery is common, but if oblivion was to be true to the feel pox marks, growths, problems with teeth, eye blemishes.. etc. would not be an option, but mandatory on facegen.
Not to mention womens waists would be strangled below size 0 with a corset, wigs would be required due to chemicals such as arsenic in their lives and poor nutrition causing hair loss.
Eating itself was stigmatised as being unfeminine, and many disorders wiped out in the majority of people in modern societies were frequent and excepted.

So my point on this what I now realise is a rant ( my apologies ), is that if we put reallife ideas of beauty into a game like Oblivion, we will always come up lacking..
Where as with what we got, it comes across as friendly to all but the most shallow nvde avatar seeking people.



Lol as a straight man I feel the same about Raq'anar the Chydinhal castle servent

Thankfully this is a fantasy game and anyone can look however you want them to as they don't have to adhere by and modern, ancient or medieval standards. Personally I'd rather be looking at a wide variety of people, beautiful as well as pox ridden rotten toothed hags, for a full and enjoyable gaming experience.

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. We all have different perceptions here.

Amen.

Very true. I just think it's sad when normal is considered ugly.

While I'm not a fan of the plastic doll/anime look that is so prevalent among modders, the stock faces do strike me as rather unsightly even compared to real "plain" looking people. I'll just chalk it down to Beth not being very experienced with the facegen tool.

Owyn and Burd were my heartstoppers lol.
So am I the only one that finds most of the NPCs rather good looking?
Honestly I do not like the super model look, I have no idea why people aspire to be like them, They look way to much like plastic.

Nah I think NPCs look pretty good.

I enjoy the looks of all the NPCs, because they are real, with flaws and features that set them apart.
If they were all the same and plastic, that would be bland, and just no fun.

Am I the only one who thinks the merchants in Imperial City look like certain celebrities? Come on, Thoronir is already close enough to Boromir and he even looks like Sean Bean! Can't remember his name or which store he owns, but it's an older gentleman who bears a distinct resemblance to good old Benny Hill.

Anyone else?

Curious thing on that-- research has shown that one of the fundamental things that people consider attractive-- setting aside all personal quirks regarding skintone and hair color and eye color and nose shape and mouth shape and so on-- is symmetry. Across most cultures as well as most personal preferences, people tend to respond positively to faces that are bilaterally symmetrical. And facegen faces tend to be notably symmetrical.

Beyond that, with the way the sliders are interconnected, it's difficult at best to get really odd proportions and combinations. That's what I was referring to earlier when I asserted a certain blandness to the faces. Not that they're notably plain, much less that there's anything wrong with plain, but simply that, since the faces tend to symmetry and to balance, the features tend to be more regular than is the norm.

That said, I think the devs did a great job with the faces. There are so many who look so appropriate for who they're supposed to be and so many who are really surprisingly striking. I could compile quite a long list of characters I find attractive, but I'm sure there'll be another thread on that one of these days, and probably relatively soon. They crop up fairly regularly.

A thing I've noticed along those lines too-- even with the relatively narrow range of available face types and hair and clothes and such, I can recognize most of the notable characters even from a distance or just from a passing glance. Just the other night, one of my characters was leaving the IC and passed Mandil on the bridge. I recognized her when we were still just about at opposite ends of the bridge.

For whatever that's worth.........

I think the character models in Oblivion (or any Bethesda-made RPGs) are awful. The skin textures are terrible.

In my opinion, the reason NPCs look the way they do is more Bethesda simply not spending much time on them than this actually being their goal. I can't see how anyone can look at the vanilla textures and honestly think they look high quality. They're low res, blurry, and devoid of detail. If anything, the skin textures are the reason most NPCs are ugly, not the head shapes.

Bottom line though, beauty is subjective. People like what they like.

The wonder of Oblivion though, is mods. If you like the way NPCs look already, great. If you don't like the way they look, there is a mod for that.