Please read the entire post before posting!


( Just a few notes: (Or alot) I'll clean up the spoiler tags when I get around to it.

1. Yes this is an old topic from July that has amassed 6000+ views.
2. It was highly anticipated and based purely on fiction that Hearthfire was going to overhaul Destruction, false.
3.

Spoiler

In Dawnguard, Destruction got nothing, In Dragonborn, Destruction got new
spells which is absolutely great, however it didn't solve Destruction magic's
greatest fear, despite ignite+Aspect of Terror, the entire skill tree is still
broken

, some spells such as Blizzard, Runes, and Wall spells still don't do what they are intended to do.
4. Yes finally,

Spoiler

Spoiler

Destruction gets a mask that increases damage by 25%, however, this is
actually&--#60;BR&--#62;more of a hinderance because now you are losing 25% mana reduction
for your head&--#60;BR&--#62;gear and expert level spells will

rain you

due to the still redicuously high magicka cost.
5. Basically the mask is ineficient for Destruction's highly unbalanced magicka to damage ratio, which is a huge issue.
6. Ignite has very low magicka cost and can be stacked which pairs up greatly with Au

Spoiler

ugmented Flames, and Aspect of Terror, this is the first solace to Destruction
with the Destruction mask unless you want to be limited to lower tier spells,

effectly limiting half of Destruction's intended purpose.
7. Magic is fine in Skyrim, this is about Destruction.
8. Yes this is a massive read, I'm sorry.

This is not a complaint, simply an opinion, I am not here to force the Devs to do anything, I just want Destruction to not be neglected from future updates and DLC.

We are all humans, please I have been gone for a good 6 months, knowledge me with anything.


Constructive criticism is good, trolling and flaming is not.

Finally, heres the original topic.)



Understand I am not here to give you blatant issues without giving statistical calculations. Before coming here and saying that "your just not using Destruction right" Please understand the following stats and the reason why Destruction pales in comparison to it's counterparts. As well as how Destruction gets weaker as you level and enemies start to scale. Not to mention a warriors DPS is much greater than Destruction's, not by a little, A LOT.

One handed Perks: Armsman(100% damage), Bladeseman(20% chance of doing more critical damage(assume 100% extra damage, so equates to 20% damage increase), Dual flurry(35% extra damage) dual savagery(50% extra damage), Savage Strike(25% damage), Fighting Stance(25% more efficient power strikes). Oh, and they can also do power attacks, that about doubles their damage while they can do them.

Destruction Perks: Destruction(50% more efficient), Augmented Fl/Fr/Sh(50% damage), Dual Casting(20% damage boost, 25% less efficient.)
Culminating in...
One Handed: 400% damage, 1200% damage when using power attacks, and 75% normal stamina usage And did you know you can power attack with even one stamina?

Destruction: 180% damage, and 70% stamina usage.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
One Handed Novice Weapon Stats(first perk used): Iron Sword x2: 17 damage per dual strike with no stamina use, ~25 damage per dual power strike.

Destruction Novice Spell Stats(first perk used): Flames x2: 16 damage/second with 12 magicka/second. No power attack available.

Add a second perk, and we get this:
One Handed Novice Weapon Stats(first perk x2): Iron Sword x2: 20 damage per dual strike with no stamina use, 30 damage per dual power strike.

Destruction Novice Spell Stats(Novice Destruction, Dual Casting): Flames x2: 19 damage/second with 17 magicka/second. No power attack available.

Now, let's jump to the endgame, and no enchantments(single skill only.)

One Handed Mastery Weapon Stats(All Perks): Daedric Sword x2 (100 damage per hit, 300 damage per power strike, power strikes now take 75% of previous stamina and stamina meter is much larger. Assume 500 stamina(most points into stamina) Assume 10 power strikes before depleted: Total damage before depletion: 3000 damage, then damage drops to 100 damage per second)

Destruction Mastery Spell Stats(All perks): Lightning Storm Dual Casting (112.5 damage per second, 59 magicka per second. Assume 500 magicka(most points into magicka), lasts for about 10 seconds, for 1125 damage. Magicka regenerates at 3% per second, base, resulting in 28.125 damage per second once magicka is depleted.)

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Now Include Support Skills(Armorer, Enchanting, Alchemy), but all separate(to avoid absurd alchemy/enchanting stacking)

One Handed Boosts: Legendary Daedric Sword+Smithing= 75% damage boost = 175 base damage, 525 power attack damage. + Alchemy = 30% damage = 220 base damage, 680 power attack damage, + Enchanting = +75% damage = 370 base damage = ~1.1k power attack damage.

Destruction Boosts: Smithing: None. 112.5 damage per second. Alchemy: +30% damage, = 146.25 damage per second, Enchanting = zero magicka cost, making this damage perma.

Final Conclusion, with all forms of enchanting:
One Handed: 370 constant damage, ~1.1k power attack damage every ~3 seconds. Average: 613 damage per second.

Destruction: 146.25 damage per second. No power attacks. 146.25 damage per second.

Final Conclusion, without (possibly broken) enchanting:
One Handed: 680 damage for 10 seconds, followed by 211 damage, with 680 power attack damage, average 367. With stamina potions stabilizes at 680.

Destruction: 146.25 damage per second for roughly six seconds, followed by ~28 damage per second indefinitely. With magicka potions, stabilizes at
146.25 damage per second.

As for people who cannot understand numbers-
"Numbers are the tools sane people use to argue. Others use knives. And nobody uses destruction magic, because it svcks and there are knives laying around.

Knives&--#62;Destruction magic. "
Bandits get stabbed and feel hurted. Bandits get fire balled and get upset, and stab you with their knife. Magic needs magic to work. Magic makes less damage than their was magic originally! Bad guys have many times more not dying than I have magic, so I stab them with my knife, which does many more damage than fireball! And knives only need sharp to work, and knives are always sharp, but can also always be sharper.Why throw fireballs at bad guys when there are so many knives laying around? Also there are also Fire Knives!
This is what happens when I argue without numbers. You see? It's terrible."

OK before you post saying how many topics there are of this, I must reiterate the idea of repetition is important to prove a cause.

Destruction is nothing compared to Archery and Melee.
Now you might say that Destruction is "overpowered" or that its absolutely fine regarding effectiveness and stop posting threads like this.
However, times that miniscule the actual effectiveness of this skill is being shunned and after 6 patches and Dawnguard most likely wont do anything to recompense for such damages that were sustained.
But again, like insensate Nords, you will all argue that the magic system is not flawed. Most will say that Destruction isn't that bad, or its simply exaggerated in terms of usefulness.

But I take this quote from someone.
"Actually it IS that bad. It is a spell school that offers nothing other than the ability to deal damage. No utility at all, unless you want to count the "side effects" of certain spells like draining magicka or stamina, which BY THE WAY, you are more likely to just straight up kill your target rather than deplete his stamina/magicka reserves. And who uses frost spells when a majority of the enemies you will fight have large amounts of innate frost resistance. Anyways, this is a school which offers only the ability to deal damage, and yet, schools of magic such as conjurations, or my favorite, illusion, offer the ability to do way more damage and have some killer utility applications as well. The dremora twins have FAR more damage potential than a destruction mage with limitless magicka. They keep going until their time is up or you're out of targets. Oh, and lets not forget that they'll take all those hits for you. A frenzied briarheart can wipe out an entire forsworn encampment by himself, and if it was one of the caster briarhearts, possibly more if you could lead him to them. And then if he ever did set his eyes on you, lol calm and walk away. You can't do that with destruction. You'll simply be left out of magic running around a table wishing you picked something other than destruction to hurt things with.
Now you could go into the whole enchantment thing, but that's putting a band-aid on an amputated arm. Even with 0 cost destruction spells, it does less damage than those other two schools. If there were damaging reStoration spells, I have full confidence that THEY would be better than destruction spells. Hell, they'd probably have cool side effects like healing you to boot.
Wait a minute, isn't there like a guardian circle reStoration spell that fears and burns undead while healing you? "

Enchanting to help you as a mage? Slightly?
"at 100 skills and perks it costs 101 mana.
your talking about a legit ENCHANTER.
yes, for a master enchanter it can be quite cheap. Still terrible though. Because now i can make +160 damage archery gear."

"Not only that, but why the [censored] do I even have to wear magicka cost reduction gear to be an effective destruction mage in the first place!? It blows my mind, so every mage in TES is basically has to rely on a crutch of stacking magical items to even be able to function well in combat? Seems odd, wasn't like that in Oblivion, and there certainly isn't a precedent for that in the lore. "

"And it's excruciatingly slow and ineffective compared to other playstyles.
I think we all here recognize it is possible to play as a pure destruction mage. But the argument being made here is that it's not fun, it doesn't feel powerful, it's not as good as other play styles, and Bethesda has done it right before in Oblivion but really messed up in Skyrim."

We can't reveal information about items found in DLC content as they are considered spoilers.

Please edit those areas in the OPwith spoiler tags.

Thanks

No problem.

Glad I could help.

Hey. I remember this thread. It got whacked with the modhammer a long while ago. Any-who, It wouldn't hurt if destruction magic got a buff or an overhaul (thought that's wishful thinking).

hmm..

it was in july

Master can't be the one and only set difficulty for every evaluation.

Instead of buffing destruction...how about nerfing other stuff like melee, ranged, illusion e.t.c?

Because it's not logical to nerf every skill, and it will effect several mechanics for every skill to be on par with Desctruction or slightly more powerful.

And then you still have to worry about the spells in Destruction that are glitched or don't work like mentioned in the op.

Rather changing two fighting styles, it would be most efficient to work whats easier to handle.

And on top of that, it will probably just take 5 minutes to balance Destruction in terms of damage wise.

I honestly think they just need to add stronger new spells. Or have an item like that can be disenchanted. Those would be the easiest options for Bethesda. But they could also actually fix it completely by having your Destruction skill determine the damage of spells, which I don't think would be very hard either.

I agree that Destruction desperately needs an overhaul, but good God that formatting is a mess.