Way back in the Vivec = Jerk? thread, we got sidetracked into an arguement about CHIM and Amaranth. Suddenly, MK popped in to give us this tantalizing piece of info:

http://www.gamesas.com/topic/1418914-vivec-god-chim-jerk-what/ (Beginning with Eyesore's post on page 5)
http://www.gamesas.com/topic/1420494-hunt-the-amaranth/
http://www.gamesas.com/topic/1420585-hunt-the-amaranth-ii/
http://www.gamesas.com/topic/1421045-hunt-the-amaranth-iii/
http://www.gamesas.com/topic/1422049-hunt-the-amaranth-iv/

It's been a named thing/person/idea for a long time. And it's not something that exists only in Obscure Texts, as that would be cheating.

It's right strange that Nir is only mentioned once, innit now?

Closer.

"Funny that "Nir" in dragon-talk is "hunt"."

Great find.


Do you know who else is missing?
"Nirn (Female/Land/Freedom catalyst for birth-death of enantiomorph)/ Anu-Padomay (enantiomorph with requisite betrayal)/ ?* (Witnessing Shield-thane who goes blind or is maimed and thus solidifies the wave-form; blind/maimed = = final decision)
*Seek and you shall find. I hid it."

Closer and closer.



"So Amaranth is not the Dreamer, is that confirmation?"

Not that Dreamer, no. The Amaranth has jumped past Tamriel, as in the purpose of the Loveletter.

Not true. The book Where Were You When the Dragon Broke is from Morrowind.

So's its out-of-time re-examination. Ahem.

I think we can ignore 11, 7, and 18.

You could.

A quick summary of Toesock's Top Six Amaranth Picks:


The Blind and Hallucinating Witness:
Old news by this point, but I think this was a great connection. We know the enantiomorphic witness has some connection to the Amaranth, we know the Witness becomes maimed/blinded, and we know that the Amaranth is like a subject in sensory deprivation that begins to hallucinate. So the betrayal is witnessed by an individual who is struck blind and begins to hallucinate a new world. This is our basis for the idea that the Missing Witness is the Amaranth.

Akamaranth and the Nested Dreams:
Mostly discredited at this point, but still one of the most interesting theories that have come up so far. In this theory, subgradients are really nested dreams, dreamed by their own dreamer, and Akatosh (combined/bound by Lorkhan) is the dreamer of Nirn. Throw in some parallels with the captive sage and Adamantia-as-witness and your all set. The problem is that MK has stated that the Amaranth has jumped beyond Nirn as in the purpose of the Loveletter.

Adamantia as the Quantum Observer:
I love this theory too. Adamantia is the spike of reality that allowed the et'ada to convene in realness. All that entered it's radius would be recorded in a static meeting place that would last for period unassailable. Adamantia was Aka's gift-limb to Nirn, granting it order in the same way that he had granted order to the et'ada as Time. Essentially, Adamantia's purpose was to record events and thus solidify reality around itself. It was "collapsing the waveform" of possibility - which is exactly the purpose of the Enantiomorphic Witness. It's no accident that the world's most famous enantiomorphic event took place inside.

C0DA - the Adamantine Spaceship:
Just a random silly theory - but awesome in my opinion! The C0DA is referenced as "breaking" - and someone speculated that this might refer to a dragon break. If you combine this with the fact that the C0DA records (for example, Jubal's bloodline) and is a spaceship model, the nature of C0DA becomes obvious - at some point, Adamantia will be uprooted and perhaps reverse-engineered for its original intention - space flight! It's also been noted that these C0DA ships have "ASSN" belief-engines...which sounds suspiciously similar to "ascension".

Mnemoli – In Loving Memory of the Failed Amaranthines:
This is the theory that Mnemoli and the star-orphans are actually failed Amaranthines trapped in untime, who serve to test/advise potential Amaranths, much like the failed Nerevarines in Morrowind. It's based almost entirely on the Mythic Dawn Commentaries: These individuals "ride astray the roadway" (i.e. walking way), for they "lost faith" - we are to eat the will that lead them to walk the path of godhead in the first place, and we will know them as the Mnemoli.

Sheogorath and the Madness of Ruling Kings:
Controversial, but I like this one, too. Someone mentioned that the story that Lie Rock was convinced to throw itself at Vivec by Sheogorath is because Sheogorath is the Void Ghost. The Void Ghost lurks within the Serpent Constellation - which is Sep (i.e. Lorkhan), and we know that Sheogorath was created by the removal of Lorkhan's heart. Thus Sheo is Lorkhan's subgradient. He can be said to exist within Lorkhan the same way the Void Ghost exists within the Serpent. We also know that madness has a special relationship to Amaranth - madness is when the dream no longer needs it's dreamer - and those who Hallucinate as the Amaranth does are surely mad. Perhaps the bargains that the Ruling King makes with the Void Ghost are for a touch of his insanity. Furthermore, Sheo has a connection with free-will, which is closely tied with the idea of numantia/liberty. It also explains why the "Blue-Bone ring of Jygg" story relates Mnemoli and the Void-Eater Trickster Cults.

The Dreamer (of the current Aurbis) - confirmed false by MK
Dagoth Ur - http://www.gamesas.com/topic/1418914-vivec-god-chim-jerk-what/page__view__findpost__p__21726929
Mankar Camoran - http://www.gamesas.com/topic/1418914-vivec-god-chim-jerk-what/page__view__findpost__p__21728708
Hist - http://www.gamesas.com/topic/1418914-vivec-god-chim-jerk-what/page__view__findpost__p__21728756
Nir - http://www.gamesas.com/topic/1418914-vivec-god-chim-jerk-what/page__view__findpost__p__21728787
Alessia - http://www.gamesas.com/topic/1418914-vivec-god-chim-jerk-what/page__view__findpost__p__21728470, http://www.gamesas.com/topic/1420585-hunt-the-amaranth-ii/page__view__findpost__p__21738475, http://www.gamesas.com/topic/1420585-hunt-the-amaranth-ii/page__view__findpost__p__21738560
Sithis/The Void - http://www.gamesas.com/topic/1420494-hunt-the-amaranth/page__view__findpost__p__21729086, http://www.gamesas.com/topic/1420494-hunt-the-amaranth/page__view__findpost__p__21729330
The Elder Scrolls - http://www.gamesas.com/topic/1420494-hunt-the-amaranth/page__view__findpost__p__21729131, http://www.gamesas.com/topic/1420494-hunt-the-amaranth/page__view__findpost__p__21729183, http://www.gamesas.com/topic/1420494-hunt-the-amaranth/page__view__findpost__p__21729212,http://www.gamesas.com/topic/1420494-hunt-the-amaranth/page__view__findpost__p__21729331
Mnemoli - http://www.gamesas.com/topic/1420494-hunt-the-amaranth/page__view__findpost__p__21729125, http://www.gamesas.com/topic/1421045-hunt-the-amaranth-iii/page__view__findpost__p__21760289, http://www.gamesas.com/topic/1421045-hunt-the-amaranth-iii/page__view__findpost__p__21761146,http://www.gamesas.com/topic/1422049-hunt-the-amaranth-iv/page__view__findpost__p__21804143
The Sun - http://www.gamesas.com/topic/1420494-hunt-the-amaranth/page__view__findpost__p__21729296, http://www.gamesas.com/topic/1421045-hunt-the-amaranth-iii/page__view__findpost__p__21753359, http://www.gamesas.com/topic/1422049-hunt-the-amaranth-iv/page__view__findpost__p__21771725
Chimere Graegyn - http://www.gamesas.com/topic/1420494-hunt-the-amaranth/page__view__findpost__p__21730512
Love/Dibella/Mara - http://www.gamesas.com/topic/1420585-hunt-the-amaranth-ii/page__view__findpost__p__21731693, http://www.gamesas.com/topic/1420585-hunt-the-amaranth-ii/page__view__findpost__p__21734577, http://www.gamesas.com/topic/1420585-hunt-the-amaranth-ii/page__view__findpost__p__21737570,http://www.gamesas.com/topic/1420585-hunt-the-amaranth-ii/page__view__findpost__p__21738448
The Scarab-Framer - http://www.gamesas.com/topic/1420585-hunt-the-amaranth-ii/page__view__findpost__p__21731914
The Prisoner - http://www.gamesas.com/topic/1420585-hunt-the-amaranth-ii/page__view__findpost__p__21736280
The Dwemer - http://www.gamesas.com/topic/1421045-hunt-the-amaranth-iii/page__view__findpost__p__21754841, http://www.gamesas.com/topic/1421045-hunt-the-amaranth-iii/page__view__findpost__p__21755192, http://www.gamesas.com/topic/1421045-hunt-the-amaranth-iii/page__view__findpost__p__21755832
Anuiel - http://www.gamesas.com/topic/1421045-hunt-the-amaranth-iii/page__view__findpost__p__21763001
The Serpent - http://www.gamesas.com/topic/1422049-hunt-the-amaranth-iv/page__view__findpost__p__21802316, http://www.gamesas.com/topic/1422049-hunt-the-amaranth-iv/page__view__findpost__p__21806548

http://www.gamesas.com/topic/1420494-hunt-the-amaranth/page__view__findpost__p__21729022
http://www.gamesas.com/topic/1420494-hunt-the-amaranth/page__view__findpost__p__21729080
http://www.gamesas.com/topic/1420494-hunt-the-amaranth/page__view__findpost__p__21729093
http://www.gamesas.com/topic/1420494-hunt-the-amaranth/page__view__findpost__p__21729161
http://www.gamesas.com/topic/1420494-hunt-the-amaranth/page__view__findpost__p__21731002

"The presence of deaf witness, this is what the numbers are. They hang onto the Aurbis as the last nostalgia of their godhood." The 29th Sermon.
These numbers, these concepts that make up the world, bear witness to what made them.
This lead into a discussion of the 29th Lesson of Vivec, and MK popped in to say:
The above numbers translate to this:

The Captive Sage
The Enantiomorph
The Missing.
The Number of the Master.
The Sword at the Center
The Egg, or Six Times the Wise.
The point between The Corners of House of Troubles and The Corners of the World.

Two ways of looking at the relationship between the numbers:
http://www.gamesas.com/topic/1420494-hunt-the-amaranth/page__view__findpost__p__21729251
http://www.gamesas.com/topic/1420585-hunt-the-amaranth-ii/page__view__findpost__p__21733248


Lady Nerevar on the numbers:

and this http://www.gamesas.com/topic/1420494-hunt-the-amaranth/page__view__findpost__p__21729326

Here were some of my initial attempts to understand them:
http://www.gamesas.com/topic/1420585-hunt-the-amaranth-ii/page__view__findpost__p__21731460. MK sent me a message expressing approval at the numerological interpretation of 11, but since he didn't post on the thread, it might not mean anything.

Here's some numerological interpretations of the numbers:
http://www.gamesas.com/topic/1421045-hunt-the-amaranth-iii/page__view__findpost__p__21757407,
http://www.gamesas.com/topic/1421045-hunt-the-amaranth-iii/page__view__findpost__p__21761066,

My lengthy arguement for Amaranth = 18, plus some puzzling over the sword at the center: http://www.gamesas.com/topic/1422049-hunt-the-amaranth-iv/page__view__findpost__p__21772130,
http://www.gamesas.com/topic/1422049-hunt-the-amaranth-iv/page__view__findpost__p__21798234