Can Stormcloak people explaine this to me

Post » Mon Apr 08, 2013 9:12 am

For the sake of not going off topic, lets' ignore all the political stuff and focus on the nature of the question which is military.


If the stormcloaks win the civil war how do they propose standing a chance against the Thalmor? The Empire, which included Skyrim, tried and lost pretty badly. So how is Skyrim supposed to achieve victory over them if it succeeds? You can shout rhetoric and bravado all day, but at the end of it all, it's still a fraction of the force that lost 30 years ago.
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Flash
 
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Post » Mon Apr 08, 2013 7:42 am

Stormcloaks are more about throwing the Thalmor out of Skyrim, which isn't a difficult thing to do.
Skyrim is far away and the Dominion won't be able to get in a second time.

Thalmor couldn't even beat Hammerfell so Skyrim should be likewise impregnable.
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Laura-Jayne Lee
 
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Post » Mon Apr 08, 2013 2:25 am

In the case of Hammerfell, they had more to lose. Look how close they are to the Dominion.

Skyrim is far away from the Thalmor as it stands right now.
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sharon
 
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Post » Sun Apr 07, 2013 11:50 pm

For the sake of not going off topic, lets' ignore all the political stuff and focus on the nature of the question which is military.


If the stormcloaks win the civil war how do they propose standing a chance against the Thalmor? The Empire, which included Skyrim, tried and lost pretty badly. So how is Skyrim supposed to achieve victory over them if it succeeds? You can shout rhetoric and bravado all day, but at the end of it all, it's still a fraction of the force that lost 30 years ago.
plus if they thalmor show up on skyrims door step,the stormcloaks have a home field advantage of knowing the landscape, not to mention the peoples trust.
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Talitha Kukk
 
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Post » Mon Apr 08, 2013 5:00 am


plus if they thalmor show up on skyrims door step,the stormcloaks have a home field advantage of knowing the landscape, not to mention the peoples trust.
Not everyone "trusts" the Stormcloaks. Half the province doesn't want them.
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Chase McAbee
 
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Post » Mon Apr 08, 2013 12:52 am

Stormcloaks are more about throwing the Thalmor out of Skyrim, which isn't a difficult thing to do.
Skyrim is far away and the Dominion won't be able to get in a second time.

Thalmor couldn't even beat Hammerfell so Skyrim should be likewise impregnable.
Don't forget, though. That was the Thalmor army after it was reduced by the Cyrodiils, Bretons, and Nords. Essentially, the Redguards were fighting a relatively equal force on the homefront.
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Jessica Thomson
 
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Post » Mon Apr 08, 2013 1:30 pm

Ulfric says explicitly after the questline that their first goal, now that the Empire has been driven out of Skyrim, is to rebuild the land to be strong and independent. Using the resources in Skyrim to make better gear(which doesn't appear to be all too necessary, since they have comparable equipment to the Legion), to build the army etc. The Stormcloaks are mainly about restoring Skyrim's independence so they can fight their own fights.

Skyrim is in no immediate danger from the Dominion, because of its geographical location, so they will have time to rebuild. Unless the Empire decides to attack them to get them back, which would be a stupid decision on their part. Wasting their soldiers taking back Skyrim will not yield them any advantages.
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Tiff Clark
 
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Post » Sun Apr 07, 2013 10:59 pm

plus if they thalmor show up on skyrims door step,the stormcloaks have a home field advantage of knowing the landscape, not to mention the peoples trust.

The advantage of fighting on one's own soil is given too much of a vast amount of credit. If the force of defending a homeland were enough to withstand any force, there shall be no large nations or empires ever created.
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Julie Ann
 
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Post » Mon Apr 08, 2013 6:29 am

Not everyone "trusts" the Stormcloaks. Half the province doesn't want them.
Half of the nobles doesn't want them. Most people seem largely disinterested in who is in charge, with some exceptions.
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GPMG
 
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Post » Mon Apr 08, 2013 12:37 pm

Half of the nobles doesn't want them. Most people seem largely disinterested in who is in charge, with some exceptions.

The nobles play a larger role than most think when rebellions concerned, with most rebellions requiring the power of the nobles and their thoughts.
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remi lasisi
 
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Post » Mon Apr 08, 2013 7:50 am

Stormcloaks are more about throwing the Thalmor out of Skyrim, which isn't a difficult thing to do.
Skyrim is far away and the Dominion won't be able to get in a second time.

Thalmor couldn't even beat Hammerfell so Skyrim should be likewise impregnable.

Pretty much this.
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Hairul Hafis
 
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Post » Mon Apr 08, 2013 10:18 am

Because elves take a very long time to reproduce and get their strength back up compared to humans who can do it relatively quickly. By the time the Thalmor got their strength back up, the Empire or an alliance of independent nations could have already started attacking them before they can completely regain their strength.
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Kelli Wolfe
 
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Post » Sun Apr 07, 2013 11:38 pm

The nobles play a larger role than most think when rebellions concerned, with most rebellions requiring the power of the nobles and their thoughts.
And they are exiled, left without power. Replaced by those who are in favor of the Stormcloak cause. By the end of the civil war, regardless of which side wins, the nobility will be fairly united.
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Melissa De Thomasis
 
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Post » Mon Apr 08, 2013 4:20 am

plus if they thalmor show up on skyrims door step,the stormcloaks have a home field advantage of knowing the landscape, not to mention the peoples trust.

Only about 40% of the population that got involed supported them, and the Empire had home-field advantage and still lost hard. The Stormcloaks would be massively outnumbered, alone, and wounded from the civil war. Besides, Galmar said he was going on the offensive and invading the Summerset Isles.
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Monika Fiolek
 
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Post » Mon Apr 08, 2013 1:29 am

Only about 40% of the population that got involed supported them, and the Empire had home-field advantage and still lost hard. The Stormcloaks would be massively outnumbered, alone, and wounded from the civil war. Besides, Galmar said he was going on the offensive and invading the Summerset Isles.
Ulfric's word triumphs Galmar's, and he says the first priority is to rebuild Skyrim to be able to stand alone.
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Julia Schwalbe
 
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Post » Mon Apr 08, 2013 3:45 am

Ulfric's word triumphs Galmar's, and he says the first priority is to rebuild Skyrim to be able to stand alone.
Yeah, Galmar is the kind of a guy who speaks before he thinks... Ulfric doesn't seem interested in crossing the border to invade Elven lands.
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KiiSsez jdgaf Benzler
 
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Post » Mon Apr 08, 2013 6:40 am

Yeah, Galmar is the kind of a guy who speaks before he thinks... Ulfric doesn't seem interested in crossing the border to invade Elven lands.
The way he presents it he seem to view it as a necessity, since he know the Dominion will try to take over the world again. Or something else along those lines. He says he wants to take the fight to them, but not before building Skyrim into a strong, independent nation.
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SEXY QUEEN
 
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Post » Mon Apr 08, 2013 6:24 am

Half of the nobles doesn't want them. Most people seem largely disinterested in who is in charge, with some exceptions.

It's more then nobles, non-nord lower class and shopkeepers seem to not like them from what we know i.e. Dunmer and Argonians in windhelm and a few shopkeepers in whiterun and solitude.

And they are exiled, left without power. Replaced by those who are in favor of the Stormcloak cause. By the end of the civil war, regardless of which side wins, the nobility will be fairly united.

Nobles can still get support from their former subjects that don't like the new leaders.
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Lyndsey Bird
 
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Post » Mon Apr 08, 2013 3:41 am

Stormcloaks are more about throwing the Thalmor out of Skyrim, which isn't a difficult thing to do.
Skyrim is far away and the Dominion won't be able to get in a second time.

Thalmor couldn't even beat Hammerfell so Skyrim should be likewise impregnable.

This. They are like Switzerland. Mountains, climat, really long walk from the Isles, plus maybe fewer in numbers, but experienced and seasoned warriors.
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Lou
 
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Post » Mon Apr 08, 2013 5:15 am

In political point of view Skyrim pales in comparison to Cyrodiil, the Thalmor are concerned with Cyrodiil (the heartland of them) Skyrim has nothing to worry about anyway. The Thalmor were just trying to recruit in circles with the surrounding lands but failed at almost all of them.
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Bitter End
 
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Post » Mon Apr 08, 2013 3:25 am

Hammerfell and Skyrim should have a good relationship. Im sure Morrowind wouldnt be to keen on the Thalmor gaining ground in the North either.
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james kite
 
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Post » Mon Apr 08, 2013 3:09 am

I still find the whole "take the fight to the thalmor" thing hilarious. Like either side, following the Civil War would be in any state in Sk...
...Eh, the Empire is probably more prepared since they have larger numbers OUTSIDE of Skyrim and wold recover war losses far quicker after the Skyrim Campaign, whereas the Stormcloaks would either need to rebuild their forces and resources...or Leroy Jenkins it.
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Dewayne Quattlebaum
 
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Post » Mon Apr 08, 2013 11:44 am

Only about 40% of the population that got involed supported them, and the Empire had home-field advantage and still lost hard. The Stormcloaks would be massively outnumbered, alone, and wounded from the civil war. Besides, Galmar said he was going on the offensive and invading the Summerset Isles.

The Empire's land is nothing like Skyrim.

The “Skyrim cannot survive alone”-argument

This one is one of the simpler arguments to debunk, because any high school dropout can look at the map and see how silly this argument is. Here. http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://cloud-2.steampowered.com/ugc/918987149705159097/C22C10AE7A645DE484D4521251914E3138836D83/&imgrefurl=http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id%3D91249786&h=1202&w=1861&sz=93&tbnid=nBGo07R-Omi71M:&tbnh=90&tbnw=139&zoom=1&usg=__7BIkCEpKVKwWqHJ0jtswf0XmBMU=&docid=Tpko8a8T0KYY3M&sa=X&ei=l3tIUd2vEIyy8AT6zYGwCQ&ved=0CDUQ9QEwAA&dur=1510

Lets look at the two ways a military force can invade a territory. The first possibility is by Land. If the Thalmor were to attempt this, they'd need to go through either Morrowind (not allies of the Thalmor, and never have been, plus Argonians occupy part of it and are fighting the Dark Elves) or Hammerfell (obviously hostile to the Dominion) or through Cyrodiil. Now many say that there's the solution. The Thalmor have a treaty with the Empire, and they are allowed through Cyrodiil and Skyrim. Two things. One, the Justiciars are allowed, and two, whole armies are clearly not. How do I know this? Tullius himself says at the Empire is currently guarding it's border to watch for an attack from the Dominion. Think about that for a sec. If the Thalmor were allowed to walts in whenever they wanted, why the hell is the Empire wasting their time guarding their borders? It makes no sense. Clearly the deal of the Thalmor in their territory extends solely to Justiciars for hunting down "heretics" not their whole army.

Now look at Skyrim's natural barriers. Mountains. The worst kind. You cannot sustain an flow of troops and supplies through a mountain range. Not easily anyway. Couple that with the intense weather, and you have a complete supply chain disaster. Now, the Thalmor, assuming they actually did get through Cyrodiil in whatever fashion still would have trouble getting through even if they used the Pale Pass, due to it's treacherous reputation. Here's an example of how it caused trouble for Tullius during the Stormcloak rebellion:

http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Pale_Pass#cite_note-4 In http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Fourth_Era#4E_201, the Pale Pass was closed due to avalanches, preventing Imperial reinforcements from helping to secure Falkreath Hold under Imperial control during the http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Stormcloak_Rebellion.http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Pale_Pass#cite_note-5http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Pale_Pass#cite_note-6

In short, a land invasion is highly unlikely in the current situation. I didn't even talk about the obvious disadvantage of fighting in a cold climate that the Thalmor are not at all used to fighting in (their homeland is SUMMERSET ISLE for Talos's sake) against a people who are literally magically resistant to cold weather and magic.

Now lets look at what the Thalmor are actually good at. Naval invasion. The Thalmor are known to have the most advanced and powerful naval force in Tamriel. But even the most advanced naval ships cannot successfully invade without a safe port nearby to house reinforcements and supplies to sustain the attack. See how far away Summerset Isle is? It would be comically impractical to invade Skyrim from this far away, whether that be by land or sea. Even our real life history proves this fact to be true. The Thalmor can't set one on the coast of Skyrim to the North because one, they'd be under constant attack, and two, the Sea of Ghosts is as the name suggests extremely treacherous. They don't have any islands nearby to do this either. The only possibility they have is to anger the Dark Elves as well, and take one of those islands that are literally on the opposite side of Tamriel from Summerset Isle. Then they'd be fighting two nearby nations at the same time, and this time one of them is magically adept, and are as tough as the Nords are. So without a true safe port, this invasion tactic is even more unlikely to succeed.

This is why I personally laugh at those who say "without the Empire in Skyrim, the Stormcloaks are doomed." The Nords could literally sit back and gulp down some Black-Briar mead while the land does the fighting for them.


Now, as for the population who support the stormcloaks, a few things.

1. After the Empire's kicked out and all the Jarls are stormcloak, it wouldn't matter. The nobles would fall in line out of necessity. Same is true if the Empire wins. Its the same situation.

2. They wouldn't care anymore after tha Thalmor attack.

Now for actually attacking the thalmor not defending, it wouldn't matter who won in Skyrim. The end result is the same. Cyrodiil Hammerfell and Skyrim will all become allies out of necessity against the dominion. That seems inevitable. Thats likely why the dominion wanted the war to continue. If the civil war was going on while they attacked, an alliance would be impossible, but now that Cyrodiil has no choice but to accept Skyrim's independence, their only choice is to not ask to be allies, and burn, or to ask and live.

Now I know both Skyrim and Hammerfell dislike Cyrodiil, but they'd have to help them, because if Cyrodiil falls, they're next. Plus, the war would stay out of their provinces, and their infrastructure would stay in tact.
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kiss my weasel
 
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Post » Mon Apr 08, 2013 12:28 pm

Hammerfell and Skyrim should have a good relationship. Im sure Morrowind wouldnt be to keen on the Thalmor gaining ground in the North either.

We don't know the relationship the Stormcloaks have with Hammerfell and Morrowind is too busy repairing and focusing on plans to expand.

I still find the whole "take the fight to the thalmor" thing hilarious. Like either side, following the Civil War would be in any state in Sk...
...Eh, the Empire is probably more prepared since they have larger numbers OUTSIDE of Skyrim and wold recover war losses far quicker after the Skyrim Campaign, whereas the Stormcloaks would either need to rebuild their forces and resources...or Leroy Jenkins it.

It's been mentioned before that the Empire has been putting most of it's forces on the borders of Valenwood and Elsewyr.
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Maddy Paul
 
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