I'm not sure how you saw any logic in the Enclave, as that was the How to NOT handle a faction rulebook.

There is basically as much interaction with them as raiders, and that is a global nightmare script

but that is off topic, and while I disagree about your view on metal gear, I do think the script you posted would be a god awful game, so at least we can agree on that.

That settles it. I'm glad I never played MGS.

Back on topic, I'm not completely dead-set opposed to the idea of an android plotline, just mostly dead-set against it. I can see it potentially working. After the literary disaster that was Skyrim, though, I don't have much faith.

Another rehash of two FO stories. That'd be my nightmare scenario (again).

I actually view that with optimism.

Fallout New Vegas has a very resilient community. We have two expansive companions (even if Willow DOES annoy the balls out of me), several major quest modders, a guy churning out weapon mods/retextures weekly, active forums here, on the Nexus and NMA, and our own Youtube channel in the form of a mod reviewer who spends 90% of his gaming time in the Mojave. To me that says we have a community of uncompromising individuals who know what we like, and should Fallout 4 truly svck, those very same individuals simply won't pack up and move solely because Fallout 4 is newer and has nicer graphics.

It means that New Vegas will stay alive for as long as it's neccesary, the way I see it. I promise you the Skyrim community is gonna freaking TANK the moment TES 6 comes out, but I don't think Fallout New Vegas' community is gonna go away until an updated game is released that can compete with it. Of course it'd be sad if no other game were able to step up and compete, but at LEAST we know there's a good community of players too stubborn to back down from Vegas.

"The day I set my flag down, it'll be over my body or over a nation I believe in." -Ulysses

"The day I shelve New Vegas, it'll be over my body or over a game I actually enjoy equally as much." -New Vegas Community

But back then, it was singular characters and scenes. The storyline premise of Metal Gear took the wheel and the front seat, and yes, cliché mainstream badass characters DID exist to try and expand the audience, since sadly such characters do attract a large crowd.

Now though? That cliché mainstream BS is at the wheel, and the old storyline premise is locked in the trunk. That's where the problem lies; the cliché over-the-top action parts are no longer secondary, but primary. It used to be the selling point of Metal Gear was it's story, and the flashy ridiculous action scenes were just to garner attention and increase sales. Now it's just a desperate attempt to make sales, only pretending to still hold the same purpose and meaning it once did.

By comparison and just for example, I actually know several people who consider the Courier in New Vegas cliché. They argue that of course he's a badass (nothing seems to be able to kill him) and badass protagonists are cliché. However, the Courier being a badass? FFS, it's rarely EVER highlighted within gameplay. Most of the game is spent focusing solely on the story and premise, with only a measely, say, ~.5% of the game's content focusing on how much of a badass the Courier is (Cass will comment on it, Dr. Mobius, maybe Benny, Ulysses, and that's pretty much it. FFS no one even compliments the Courier for surviving Dead Money). It doesn't detract from the main focus of the game, nor do the examples you listed. The "badassedry" of Reveangance clearly does.

And even so, we're talking two entirely different levels of cliché. The Courier being cliché is only cliché to the extent of the player wanting to feel special, and the Courier is special. However, the way the Courier is special is consistent: he's incredibly durable and incredibly lucky. While you will see him surviving situations that no one else would, you WON'T see people talking about how he's the smartest guy ever, or the fastest, or the strongest, etc etc etc. His badassedry is human in that it's literally restricted solely to his luck and survivablity. This makes it believable because of course many of us may know someone like this in real life (my own grandfather for example smoked a ridiculous amount of cigarettes and booze his entire life, only contracted lung cancer finally at the age of 83, and then had the most peaceful, painless death ever, seemingly "dying" for a good 5 minutes, only to come back and say that "dying" felt great and now he can't wait to die. Like wtf), but that doesn't mean that person is superhuman and amazing at everything.

Raiden in Metal Gear now? He delivers one-liners, he's cocky and doesn't take [censored] from anyone, he's fast and strong and smart and brave and every good word in the world. He can fart bullets that can shoot clear through Chuck Norris, Bruce Lee, the Incredible Hulk and Optimus Prime all at the same time. He can do no wrong. It's just a ridiculously naive and childish character archetype in which the story literally suffers by his existence alone, because anyone in the audience with half a brain is groaning at how unbelievable it all is and how hard it is to relate to or care about the story with such an inhuman and unrealistic protagonist. Typically it's the younger crowd that hasn't already been over-exposed to this exact archetype 1000 times already that eats it up. Companies know that, and thus, violá: "Jack the Ripper."

That's a horrible example though, The Silmarillion is a prequel LONG before Sauron was the real Big Bad. It's set in Valinor as well as Middle Earth and is considered canon.

Androids, Aliens, Enclave and the BoS to save the day

And Rising is a sequel, after Snake stopped being the MC, is set in locations outside of ones already visited in Metal Gear games, while still being in the same world, and is considered canon.

how is it a bad example?

Because you said it's different. If it's truly different, a spin-off isn't considered canon in most cases and is soley there for cash purposes.

That drove me crazy I can remember having a huge rant on youtube telling people why the game ends and that the ending slides give weight to every decision not just a canon ending.

You awake in a place you've never seen before. This doesn't look like anywhere you've seen before, in fact, it looks like a completely different time period. You get up and walk around a bit, then you realize you're in what appears to be a Pre-War hospital room. You open the door and see a totally in-tact hospital. Questioning what is happening, you grab the nearest nurse and ask where you are and what year it is. She tells you you're in 2015, in Detroit, Michigan. She then makes you go back to your bed and get some sleep, as you clearly need some time to remember what happened.

As you drift into sleep, a memory sequence begins. You are Brotherhood of Steel power armor, holding a top of the line laser rifle, fully equipped with a scope and a laser modifier that makes the lasers explode on contact. You look up after examining yourself, and instantly remember where you are. You see the giant Liberty Prime MKII, also known as Optimus Prime, walking towards you and your fellow Brothers. You look left and right at your Brothers, when you realize they've all started firing upon Optimus Prime. The Enclave member piloting Optimus Prime realizes he is under heavy firepower, and does something no Brotherhood member has ever seen. He made Optimus Prime transform into what appeared to be a Pre-War semi-truck.

You awake from the dream, with a doctor standing above you, holding a clipboard. The doctor tells you you're looking much better, and discharges you from the hospital. The doctor hands you the bag and the clothes you came in with, and walks you out of the hospital, wishing you luck. You look through your bag, searching for any clue as to how you were sent backwards in time. You find a pistol, a few rounds for the pistol, a cell phone, $500, and a letter. You pull out the letter, sure that this will have some significance. The letter reads as follows:

-----

"Dear Owyn Lyons Jr.,

So I'm guessing by this point you've realized you've been sent backwards in time. I'm truly sorry I had to do that, I just couldn't leave you here, but didn't have the heart to kill you. After all, you were my leader at one point. So really, this was a gift to you. Really. It was this, or death.

Now, I did some research about Detroit in 2015 behind closed doors. I couldn't leave you there without any help. No one from our time would ever fit in there alone. I learned that there was an underground group there, called the Iron Kin, and I believe they are the roots of your Brotherhood of Steel. If you would like to make some friends, I highly recommend you find them. From what I have found, they met at the GM Museum on Sunday nights when the museum was closed.

I wish you the best of luck there.

From Ishmael Ashur"

-----

You must now embark on a quest to the GM Museum, after picking up a map outside the hospital, and you must make sure you're there around 9 P.M. on the next Sunday night, otherwise you will have to wait another week. It is recommended you use your money to go to the grocery store and then find a shelter of some sort for the next few days, until the Iron Kin meeting. You must also try to fit in as a normal Detroit citizen, otherwise you will be arrested, and if you are arrested, you will obviously not be able to make the meeting. So no going around guns-blazing, or you'll run into some trouble.

Once you've made it to the Iron Kin meeting, you must tell them your story. They believe you after you give them some convincing facts about the Brotherhood of Steel, and they confirm that the groups share the same goals. They agree to help you get back to your time, and reveal that they have been working on their own time machine. They are missing a few parts, which could probably stolen from the recently built NASA base just a short while outside of Detroit.

You must sleep like a normal person in this game, and you have been given access to a secret room in the GM Museum. Every time you sleep, you live through another memory from your army experiences. The experiences go in reverse order from the Optimus Prime battle, which was the downfall of the Brotherhood. You experience the slow fall of the Brotherhood in reverse order.

Once you help finish the time machine and are sent into your time, you are given the option to join the Enclave, because Ashur still feels bad about what he did, and would gladly accept you, or you can roam the wastes gathering up members for a Rebel Army, and then you can attempt to overrun the Enclave. If you take the second option, you will actually lose this fight, no matter what. The Enclave is far too powerful to stop at this point, and they have begun making more machines similar to Optimus Prime, which they are calling their Autobots.

My personal Fallout 4 nightmare? Ok I can write it but I think it will be a bit different then expected. Sorry that it is so long but I do my best to bring it in a readable format:


Why there will be no Fallout 5

or

How the great goal was finally achieved after 7 years of fight.


It wasn't a great surprise at all in December 2013 that Fallout 4 sold more copies in two weeks then Skyrim in 6 months. No one has doubted this since the first official announcement was made in November. So let's start our little story here.

What was interesting that there wasn't a lot of information about this game in beforehand. Absolute no magazine previews. Nearly no leakage of story elements, involved actors, system mechanics or any in game footage where revealed before the release. Bethesda secrecy at it's best.The only known and later also confirmed facts where that it was set in Boston, three Dog would return and a twitter post that said: "Yes railroad is in the game." Answering the question "Is railroad in FO4?"

Shortly after this tweet was made on the 6 of November2013 all hell broke loose in the Bethesda forum. Every few minutes a new thread was created (mostly form fresh user accounts) all in the same tenor. Here some thread titles from this time:

I told you so from the beginning.

They hinted it in FO3 and now we know for sure that FO4 has this bad {censored} story.

Bethesda can't and shouldn't make RPG games they can't write.

I hate Androids. The greatest letdown EEEVVVVEEEERRRR!

First only one little web magazine reported about this {censored}storm but within only three days the whole web and also the printed magazines wrote long articles about how bad this game has to be. All of them speculated widely about the game plot and the mechanics because the only known facts where:

Boston, three Dog would return, Yes railroad is in the game.

One week later after this tweet a cgi/live action trailer for the game was released which showed the silhouette of Boston and a figure which wasn't easily to identify but had some resemblance with the first terminator in its dissolved mechanical state. Now it seemed the whole web started to hate the soon to be released Fallout 4.

The most well known old school Fallout Fan website closed and put a graphic picture on the front with the title:

Bethesda killed Fallout! We can't continue! Fallout is now only a Piece of {censored}.

Soon after that one of the Fallout Wiki's did the same with a bit less graphic and less intrusive language.

As the other Wiki was about to do the same, they got an invention to Bethesda for a exclusive look to the game. A novelty because this privileges is normally only granted to journalists of the press. Which acted accordingly and wrote more and more how bad this game will be they had no facts so they where simply invented. Based on the speculative posts in the forums.

At least the stuff of this wiki decided to leave their website on line after they have got their invention.

One week before release they took down their Front page. But it wasn't protest. It showed only one statement: You are all wrong!

This "Sorry! We where wrong!" btw. nearly became a meme for the press at this time shortly after the release of the game.

This dream Fallout 4 was the perfect game (not only Fallout game) for them. It combined old & new elements perfectly, had a intelligent and entertaining story, meaningfull and entertaining dialog, was fun to explore, a well thoughtout RPG and fight system which wasn't boring to manage but still true to the originals), stunning graphics, and, and, .... Don't forget this is a story about a nightmare. Nothing is real .

The railroad tweet btw. (for anyone who is interested in this fictional game ) was about a real railroad (trains people, trains ) which was shown in the game. Sure it wouldn't be a Bethesda game if there wasn't a few bugs but none of them where game/quest breaking, obvious at the start of the game or annoying. The customers seem to agree with the press because it was the most sold one at all even if it was made for the old consoles and PC and had a very bad press before the release.

Does my story end here? No that would be to easy and it wouldn't be a nightmare at all as it has to be here. It's only the setup for what happend after all these events.

So everyone admitted their errors and misinterpretations at the end? Everyone? No there is a small village in Gaul... (You get the reference I hope ).

A few people simply refused to see that this (dream) game had nothing to do with the horror vision that was made out of it earlier on and began to nitpick. For example how this stone couldn't realistically be on this place or how the plot is secretly a bad ripoff of "Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep?" even if they aren't any Androids or detective stories in the game.

Interestingly it wasn't the big robot (the Terminator figure I mentioned earlier and no he wasn't the endgame solution ) that they use for their hypothesis it was the ride able "Giddyup Buttercup" which was implemented as a joke that was the base for their speculation.

Often you could read on the forums:

{quote}
See that is the plot of the book:

Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep? takes place in the year 1992, after World War Terminus and its radioactive fallout have ruined most of Earth. The U.N. encourages emigration to off-world colonies, in hope of preserving the human race from the terminal effects of the fallout. One emigration incentive is giving each emigrant an "andy" — a servant android.

The remaining populace live in cluttered, decaying cities in which radiation poisoning sickens them and damages their genes. Animals are rare, and keeping and owning live animals is an important societal norm and status symbol. But many people turn towards the much cheaper synthetic, or electric, animals to keep up the pretense. Prior to the story's beginning Rick Deckard owned a real sheep, but it died of tetanus, and he replaced it with an electric one.

There is an Andy in the game (he is the secret android), a electric sheep and there is a big city so FO4 is a complete ripoff there is no way around it.

That's the one and only truth!

{end quote}

It was complete nonsense for sure but it was repeated so often that people started to believe in it. A method that these people trained a lot earlier. It was easy because the words fallout, preserving the human race, Animals are rare, decaying cities,... are in this text.

Poor Andy. In game he was a meaningless mechanic in a water plant but that didn't matter for them. Everyone who had played this fictional Fallout 4 more as the main quest would realize this pretty fast but sadly most people do. Youtube videos where made with 10 minutes ranting about how highly philosophical and literate the video maker is. To state in the last two minutes the nonsense myth I mentioned above.

Even if it was abstruse it worked for sure. People who enjoyed the game earlier believed in it and the old speculation and accusations from before the release came to a new life. No wonder these nonsense was going on now for full two years.

As the last DLC was released for FO4. This strange diversion of the real game was at its peak.

At the same time the new Fallout: San Francisco was announced. Made by Obsidian. Don't forget we are still in my fictional nightmare future. Learned from earlier mistakes that where made Obsidian had a very open policy and gave a lot of details of the games beforehand and it looked stunning. Interesting to explore, a whole living and breathing city with a ton of NPCs masterfully scripted. Sure it was basically the FO4 engine. But a masterfully made game which looked like it was in development since the first rumors of FO4. Which didn't have to hide from it's successor but also wasn't a cheap ripoff.

Now the {censored}storm started again. How could Obsidian be so contumelious to make a game that takes place in one of the same places that was already shown in an earlier game. Don't touch FO2 was the basic premise of the threads at this time.

Their conclusion: It must have been Bethesda who has forced them to do this terrible sacrilege.

And here is the point where the real nightmare starts:

One of the Developers of Obsidian had enough of this nonsense and relieved a terrible truth in an short article in a tiny web magazine:

No one has forced Obsidian to do this it was our own choice to explore the core region again.

That wouldn't have been so bad if this developer also didn't have written this one fatefull sentence:

and btw. to all FO4 haters outthere I only have one thing to say: All writers of the original game (he meant FO1 in this context) have worked on FO4 and also on our new game.

At first this was played down as not true. But as the so called fans didn't stop to campaign against Fallout: San Francisco all writers who worked for both games came forward one by one. Now Bethesda had no choice. They had kept this fact as a secret, so if FO4 would go wrong no one else would get the blame (or maybe it was selfish, I don't know it's a nightmare ).

Bethesda confirmed it and at the same time they announced that it is now finally enough with these nonsense. It was a fun and wild ride but this IP and his "fans" aren't worth the effort anymore. There won't be any more "Fallout" in a foreseeable future. It's time for us to start a IP which is less controversial.

So here ends my nightmare. I know it's evil because you will never know what happend to my fictional Fallout: San Francisco or if Fallout really dies here at this point.

But sorry that is simply how nightmares work and you don't get a friendly resolution. So no mercy . It's time to wake up and look optimistic in the future for Fallout 4.


Again this story is pure fiction as all stories here i this thread are. And maybe a little parody at what is happening now and in the past about this franchise.

Let's hope nothing of this comes true. But I still have my little doubts about it.

Yeah, because that totally didn't seem to be portraying those who enjoy the original games/aren't optimistic about Fallout's future as being outright irrational and resistant without reason to the new games. Unless I'm wrong, such people are the equivalent of the little village in Gaul in this scenario, and are also those who ferociously rebel against the "sacrilege" of Fallout: San Francisco? I just detected a little subtext in there, is all.

I almost completely agree with everything said, although I did dislike Raiden in MGS2. I loved all the Metal Gears aside from Rising. I loathed Rising and it upset me that it was considered canon (basically said [censored] the MGS4 ending).

In any case, "RIP MGS". What?! Have you not seen the awesomeness that is MGS V!? I wish all the Rising was canceled and all resources and time were instead placed into Phantom Pains. I can't wait to play as John again and the prospect of it being open world instead of linear stealth made me weep tears of joy. It's the game I'm most excited for this year.

You play as a 13 year old from Vault 102 and your alcoholic daddy got so drunk that he has left the vault! Your mission is to go out and find him because you feel like it. Throughout your journey you come across many different places like Megatron, Tennickel Tower, and Welder City! You also soon realize that the Enclave has returned, again! The explanation for it is left unknown due to lazy writing. They want to take over the world and stuff! To do this, they ally themselves with the Aliens and the Super Mutants! You also find out your daddy died of alcohol poisoning because the game was trying to create an emotional attachment that didn't work.

You then seek revenge, because you feel like it! After completing multiple radiant quest, you're near the end of the game! You come to realize the leader of this entire scheme is none other than Nicolas Cage, who seeks to arrange every file cabinet by alphabetical order! He then scalps your face off and wears it as a mask. Your choices didn't matter. The end.

NOT REALLY! Download the 'Somewhat Broken Iron' DLC and continue the story! You now seek more revenge because you feel like it! You encounter Nicolas Cage for a final time to defeat him once and for all. He kills you.

The end.

Lord I hope not. Nic Cage is awful. That is almost as bad as android nightmare. Almost.