...and then, Vehk says Daedra are kinda averse to change.

Two sides of one coin. the trick is to stand it on its edge.

Is that to say that the Aedra and Daedra are standing on the edge of change and stasis, or that we must when we try to understand their motivations? Because I don't see where we need to balance, really. This sounds more like an exhortation for CHIM than anything else.

It's kind of a CHIM joke, yeah, but it's also pointing out that Akatosh-Shezarr/Aniuel-Sithis/Anu-Padomay dichotomy all leads back to unity in the Godhead- that's why the daedra can embody change and be averse to it at the same time.

Whether the Aedra are dead or not is an open question. Personally, I think there is more proof that they aren't than that they are. That's a different topic though...just thought I would CHIMe in since its one of my favs.

With regards to Lorkhan...I don't believe or like Mankar's claims. I think it cheapens CHIM and Amaranth and the Endeavor and all the creation stories. I think there is probably a nugget of truth to it though. The Aedra are probably lying a great deal about what really happened and what their true motives/purpose are/is.

I think combining Mankar's "flesh for the Earth Bones" with Vehk's "lunar currency" might have interesting implications. Like the Aedra using human souls to sustain themselves or something.

Well, they already use mortal belief. It's only a short jump from mind to soul, I suppose... well, I can only guess at that, really.

On the "mortality" of beings from Mundus.

What if the Dreamsleeve is simply a way to avoid the pain of oblivion, for the price of having one's memories removed and soul being mixed with other souls from Mundus.

Well Sheo's realm remains Sheo's until the font of madness is taken control of(Turning it into the font of order).

It wouldn't be surprising that Malacath's spine could perform a similar function

Dagon's pocket realms are stable so long as the sigil stone is active.

Lorkhan's heart is the heart of the world.

It's not all that farfetched. Probably wrong, but you can still make a case for it.

Wait...does that mean the Daedric realms have Stones, and by extension...Towers?!?!

Holy crap!! Mankar was right!

Woah. Good call.

I never made the connection between mundus stones and sigil stones before. Totally makes sense.

It still doesn't mean that Mankar was right though. It could be that all planes, in Oblivion or otherwise, require a Tower and a Stone to stabilize them. Its an imitation of the Ur Tower.

Whew. I was worried there for a second.

I still think this was a literal battle of ideas: Mankar was proving his thesis by conquest. Because he lost, we know his preaching to be false.

It certainly helps that myth is fact in TES, even if it wasn't true before it was conceived of in story.

I can't tell if you are being sarcastic, ie. making fun of me, or if you are serious.

Weren't the Sigil Stones just keeping the Oblivion Gates open?

They kept the entire (pocket) realm active. You may have noticed that the entire place starts on fire and starts to fall apart when you disable and remove the stone. So yes they kept the gates open, because they kept the place they were open to from collapsing.

I thought that was just the tower collapsing. Is it actually stated somewhere that the Sigil Stones are keeping the pocket realms in existence?

Well, if Sigil Towers work like Nirn Towers, then the collapse of the Tower and the collapse of the realm would be equivalent.

The Stones keep the Towers active, and the Towers keep the realm from collapsing.

If it simply closed the gate, then the CoC would have been trapped in the Kvatch gate. If the entire realm ceases then it stands to reason that everything gets ejected from it.

Not too surprising, considering Nu-Mantia Intercept:

Ya, makes sense that they would both need Towers/Stones if they were built on the same principle.

Sorry. Being serious (and funny at the same time). Definitely NOT making fun. It would be a scary world if our fave Tamrielites were, in fact, Daedra. A la Dark Souls humans being "black sprites."

Dream sleeve is actually waters of oblivion.