I would like to see invisability harder to cast. I would like to see the duration directly tied to your level in illusion at a rate of 1 second for every 3 levels. I think that this would make building your level more important.

As for chameleon I would like to see the same idea, your persentage and duration linked to your level at a rate of (duration 1 point for 3 levels and Persentage 1 point per level)

The other thing that would be good to see is sound actually playing into this. Both of these spells do not mask your sound of walking with no sneak skill and enemies will react to any sound they Hear and attack the area that the sound came from (possibly using the alarm level system described by others)

Invisibility and Chameleon need to stay IMO, however, they should be more costly and time consuming to cast.

The real issue isn't in the spell, it should only be used by really high level Illusionists anyways, the problem is in AI reaction to the spell. It should be readily apparent to many AI when there is an invisible predator lurking around, unless they do absolutely nothing to give themselves away, after all the spell only effects vision not scent, hearing, or even seeing the consequences the person has on the surrounding environment. Fact is the AI should look for help, call out that there's a mage in the area, swing in the direction of sounds and search out for enemies, entering a higher alert status when something is amiss.

To further this, higher level enemies should have tricks up their sleeves for just such an occasion such as smoke which could reveal your location through relatively limited processes such as particle effect physics, or traps designed specifically to reveal such individuals. Floors that are notably difficult to be quiet on, or chains hanging around, and vines and such that would give away an invisible player, even shallow water would have this effect. Top it off with our magical opponents who could simply cast a spell to undo the invisibility or chameleon, or even better silence you altogether.

Plus following the tradition of RPGs there are vocal and somatic components to be considered with all spells, and these are no exception.

Point is this can be solved in game without just taking away the effects, and don't even pretend the technology isn't good enough, it easily is, even for consoles.

Now we're talking Love these ideas. I don't mind these high powered spells if varying conditions make them not fully applicable all the time. But sadly until now, all conditions are ideal. It's the same with sneak. Why would you not be detected if you manages to push a glass off the table and alert them? Or with a bow. When an arrow flies over their head, shouldn't they notice and become alert? So it's not just magic that have some undesirable side effects due missing factors in the game. So unless we can have these factors in the game, the effects can easily become overpowered.

No need to remove.

Just put a hard cap of 60% on Chameleon. Both chameleon and invisibility should consume magicka rapidly while active, but Invis breaks on any action.

However give cool things to these spells. Maybe the first attack out of invis can increase spell damage? (like how first attack out of stealth increases physical damage)
Maybe chameleon has a chance to scare/confuse humanoids?


And put NPCs with detect life in the game.

yes yes if they make better "enemies" by all means, and yes put a cap on all buffs, only elementales are allowed total spell immunity :flame: :shocking:

I always edit out Chameleon, Invisibility and anything else that makes my character take no damage. I really don't understand why they have to be in the game or be in the game the way they are. Getting 100 percent magic resistance is pushing it I think. I had so much fun playing my very first character in Oblivion, I think I got him to level 40 some then I decided to see what would happen when I used all my Chameleon gear and it totally ruined the game for me. Even the invisibility spells can be "abused" and ruin the experience. I like the way it works in Crysis where the more you move the quicker your "spell" goes away and if you make any attack then it's gone instantly.

Yes I know you don't have to use these spells or gear/enchantments but I shouldn't have to avoid them to keep balance.

Huh? They have their weaknesses; weakness to other elements (which you may not be), and limited to single spells (where you can choose - I'm just assuming here that all your destructive power isn't based solely on fireballs).

i was playing a mod for fallout NV which had a suit with a stealth field on it like the chinese stealth suit. it only worked when you were crouching and not moving and didnt have any weapons out. as soon as you started to move you were visible again and once you stopped it you were invisible. it was very balanced and outside of moving a half step at a time (which takes forever when your crouching) there really wasnt any way to abuse it. you had to make sure that your enemy was not looking at you becuase when you took your gun out you were visible again. after you shot them you had to put you gun away to regain your stealth field. the only thing i wish was in there was a script to turn off your stealth field if an npc ran into which did happen from time to time but this particular mod didnt do that.

this made invisiblity great for hiding and for first strike but i really couldnt abuse it like i could in oblivion. at the very least in skyrim if they dont do this they need to put a timer of 60 seconds between casting.

What if not only did chameleon and invisibility cost lots of magic points but they added an area effect to dispel so if you aren't being sneaky they hear you and cast it when they realize that someone is invisible and cast it to find you. dispel would also be enhanced to cause enchanted objects to not work for a set amount of time or it would drain a lot of their charge, it could also have different levels to it so if you have 100% chameleon there could be a weaker version of the spell that drops you to 50% or even 30%. Illusion should also be changed so you cant cast either chameleon or invisibility until higher levels. they could also do something where the level you are at is the highest percent you can cast the spell so if you are at level 33 in illusion you can only chameleon up to 33%. they could also update the AI so that if it realizes that you are invisible and in the area NPCs would actively search you using the new dispel spells and detect life and as one last thing they should change spell scrolls and potions so that either there isn't a scroll for invisibility or the scroll is extremely expensive and not complete invisibility.

I also like what the one guy said about invisibility/chameleon going away the faster you moved the quicker it goes away and this could be expanded to how much it is affecting you so at a sneak you are at your levels cap and the faster you move the more the quality decreases until you are at a full run and you are at 3% or whatever and the spell would only last seconds at a time.

Hit it on the head. Agree 100% that this NEEDS to be implemented.