Lots of people, including myself, have been requesting for new skills and redistribution of skills within governing abilities. therefore, I have been wondering, what skills and what governs them do you guys think would be the best.

On a side note.
1- The number of abilities and skills should be balanced so that the 3 archetypes (mage thief warrior) have the same ammount of skills and abilities to master to be 100% efficient in their domain.
2- All abilities should govern the same number of skills for the sake of balance.

So I'm asking. How many skills? How many Abilities? Wich skills? Wich abilities? you want in the game and also How do you want the system to be?

Are you kidding? We need to merge all the skills into 1. We can call it the "Do" skill.

Seriously though making it fair isn't easy. In order to keep both of them balanced we'd need another 21 skills. 7 attributes and 3 combat styles so 21 is the lowest number that follows both your rules. I would love to have most of the old skills from Morrowind return, at least the different combat ones. But this gives combat a ton of extra skills.

It think balance is not symetry. TES should break with the obsession of having precisely the same number of skills for each stat and for each major archetype.
I see the real problems with skill list as :
1/ having unusefull skills/stats
2/ having actions that a character may legitimately do but are not feasible because they were not implemented.
3/ having too many different actions under a same skill
4/ having some actions that obviously depend from another stat (or even another skill!) than the skill governing one.

I Don't think characters should become all powerfull, mastering all the skills from their class at a top level. Therefore, I do not care too much if one class has 8 associated skills while another may have 12.
I do not care if a stat has 4 or 8 skills neither. It would become a problem if a stat only had 2-3 skills and another 10 maybe.

What I would like is to have a very long list of possible actions (like making a power attack with a short sword, jumping from a roof, making an aimed shot with a bow, crafting a shield or taunting an NPC...).
All those actions would depend on a combo of skills and stats (with the first representing the character knowledge, experience and the last his raw potential of action).
6-10 stats can globally describe the major abilities of a humanoid character. From experience of past TES, 30-50 skills would be enough for medieval fantasy adventurer character. But do we actually how many possible actions were feasible in previous TES? For example, athletics only affected the running action, while each wizard school skill could cover many different spells.

I think our first reflexion should be to list all the actions we thought we could have to do in a TES, then think about the skill set.

Well do it here so we may settle this out.

Something else you can think of with the skills is how you would set up the basic classes, then see if you think there's something missing.

A knight for example might want Greatsword, Mauls, Sword, Equestrian, Chain Weapons, Shield, Outdoorsman, Climbing, Athletics, Etiquette, Diplomacy, and things of this sort.

The number of skills that affect an attribute isn't as important as you might think.

In combat, are you likely to use all of the different types of weapons and armor for the same character? They're interchangable enough that you'll probably never NEED to use more than 1 or 2 types of weapons out of Long Blades, Short Blades, Axes, Blunt, Spears, or Marksman weapons, or use Light, Medium, and Heavy armor all with the same character. Then again, you might choose to do so.

With schools of magic, there's a reason to use each of them, so you could very likely have Destruction, Restoration, Alteration, and Illusion, along with another school or two, and STILL not have all the bases covered.

The important thing is to make it so any character type is "viable", not necessarily "balanced". If one is a little harder or slower to advance than the other, it just means that you need to spend a bit more or less time playing to get to the same point.

Ideally, having most skills affect more than one attribute, but at different rates, could be far better. GCD for MW, and Kobu's for OB, both do that, and I believe that most other "levelling" mods also include that feature. It makes it so that you can use a preferred set of skills and still gain a small amount of improvement in other related aspects of the character, although at a far lower rate than if you had concentrated on it. For example, increasing your Mercantile skill might improve both Personality, and to a lesser degree, Willpower. Of course, having your Personaility improve even slightly by learning to shoot people on sight with a Marksman weapon generally isn't within the scope of "related" attributes.

My "system" is a bit different. I advice you to get some coffee for this one
5 specializations rather than 3: Combat, Nature, Stealth, Social, and Magic.
56 total skills in the following scheme:
Combat: 4 x Strength, 3 x Endurance, 2 x Speed, 1 x Agility, 1 x Willpower. 4+3+2+1+1 = 11. 4 and 3 and 2, but 2 x 1s.
Nature: 3 x Strength, 2 x Endurance, 2 x Speed, 1 x on remaining. 3+2+2+1+1+1 = 11. 3 and 2 x 2, but 4 x 1s.
Stealth: 4 x Agility, 2 x Endurance, 2 x Speed, 2 x Willpower, 2 x Personality 4+2+2+2+2 = 12. 4 and only 2s, but no 1s, and extra skill.
Social: 3 x Intelligence, 2 x Personality, 2 x Willpower, 1 x on remaining. 3+2+2+1+1+1 = 11. 3 and 2 x 2, but 4 x 1s.
Magic: 4 x Intelligence, 3 x Personality, 2 x Willpower, 1 x Agility, 1 x Speed. 4+3+2+1+1 = 11. 4 and 3 and 2, but 2 x 1s.
This allows a "fair looking table" (two versions, at least) if you allow some strangeness (OB has a few with only 21 skills, so not an issue I think).

Using a custom class, it allows you to choose:
6 Major skills. Capped at Master, 100. When all are 100, you can choose to go for Grand Master in only one single skill of these.
12 Minor skills. Capped at Expert, 75.
12 Misc skills. Capped at Journeyman, 50.
The remaining 26 skills will remain unavailable to level up in, and hidden, but falls back on governing stats.
Total levels here: 6*100 + 12*75 + 12*50 = 2100.
Total levels in OB: 21*100 = 2100. Wow, nice coincidence (not kidding)
So you get to enjoy the same amounts of increases, but end up with a more "defined" character than the superhero of everything.

These are added bonuses that has most importance in the earlier and mid stages of the game.
But as you increase in levels, the importance of these are reduced.
If we cap level at 50, we get Level 20 = 60% from skills, 40% from stats.
So at max level, all value modifications come from stats alone, except you get to enjoy the skill perk bonuses.

So how can you choose the best skills? Hopefully by choosing a preexisting class from a much longer list.
But if going custom, chances are that you can find skills that are much more suitable for a role playing character than today, even if those skills aren't necessarily the most *efficient* ones. If you choose to play a librarian, you may have the skills available to do one, but naturally you wouldn't expect to be a very good fighter at least no until very late in the game. But the perks still label you a librarian.

So, are 56 skills too much? Consider how the Role Master system have, well, look it up and be blown away I know a lot is considered redundant and unusable, even for a dice based game.

The obvious downside is that in order to enjoy all those new skill perks etc, is really to restart another game, which may not be for everyone. In dice games, the world continue to live its life when your character dies and you roll up a new one - that luxury doesn't exist for us due reload (I'd hate to loose that, lol) and possibly storytelling (a GM can adapt anything to suit).

So what I'm suggesting to counter that is level perks. Every 10 level you advance, you get to choose another profession (maybe quest is offered to you), but time will advance much more than a regular levelup, due initial studies or whatever. With a level 50 cap, you will end up stuck with your 6th profession (which isn't totally unrealistic). You would have to let go of your other hard earned skill perks though (massive screen estate problems).

Now, finding suitable skills, let alone perks, that plays out well in a computer based game, is really the hard part. Some of those I've come up with:

Combat & Arms:
Armorer
Axe
Block / Fall
Blunt Weapon
KO Resistance
Dodge / Backtrack
Heavy Armor
Long Blade
Shield
Spear
Two Handed Weapon

Nature & Body
Alchemy (mixing) - I do believe this belongs more in the Nature specialization.
Archery
Camouflage - You'll end up looking like a fool by NPCs, but will help being undetected by animals.
Hunting / Whisperer - Ability to skin and prepare an animal, increasing rest quality, may also give some commanding abilities.
Jumping - Split out from Acrobatics
Medical - Takes over where magic and alchemy fails. Deals with illnesses and critical wounds that cannot be healed normally.
Medium Armor
Nomadic - Ability to setup a secure and hidden camp that is not interrupted by animals, greatly increasing outside resting quality.
Running - Split out from Athletics.
Stalking (animals) - Split out from Sneak.
Swimming - Split out from Athletics.

Stealth & Thievery
Climbing - New, but old favorite from Daggerfall
Critical Strikes - Ability to find weak spots against armor.
Daggers
Evasion - "Where did he go"?
Light Armor
Lockpicking
Perception - Know your opposition or lock before risking getting caught over an apple or breaking an expensive lockpick on an easy lock.
Pickpocketing
Poison (applicate) - Governs speed you can move while applicating poison, how quickly you do it, and how many poisons you can have ready.
Short Blade
Sneak (NPCs) - Split from sneak.
Throw & Blow

Social & Lore
Brawling/Insult - Ability to stir up a fight, as this is Skyrim, Nords etc Must have barfights...
Cooking - Ability to prepare higher quality meals from raw materials, as fatigue is to be more important.
Crafting - Ability to craft useful items of enhance their value, but making armor and weapons seems over the top.
Evaluation - Ability to guesstimate accurate values of items, and yes, it should be separate from Mercantile / Barter.
Hand to Hand
Language / Turn - Ability to scare off animals using beast tongue, and talk your way out of trouble with NPCs.
Mercantile / Barter
Persuade
Potion (applicate) - How quickly can you drink potions under pressure, and how many can you have prepared (if implemented).
Recognition / Lore - How much info you see on screen when pointing at an object or person, but deals more with leveling than valuing.
Unarmored / Block

Magic & Spells
Absorption? - unsure... 100 means capped at 50%, but perks?
--- Free (found a duplicate). Maybe split Staff / Wand into Staff / Bo / Sand Wands / Magical Staves? Dunno actually...
Alteration
Conjuration
Destruction
Enchanting
Illusion
Mysticism
Recasting - how quickly you come back from trance where you can cast again, but governs all schools of magic.
Reflecting? - unsure... 100 means capped at 50%, but perks?
Staff / Wand - governs both stick fighting and wand shooting, where wand is a weapon you need to control aim of (similar to archery).

The actual skill selection is still in its infancy, and not very brainstormed, but the tables "seems to work".

I've also modified the stat system a bit, to increase the importances and variances for the Social specialization. Character generation is based on rolls and assignments, and luck is a factor you can never change. "Now I'm going to become more lucky" never worked for me. What you got on your roll sticks, although there should be things throughout the game that can modify it. Also speed is removed as a governing attribute, and is now a derived attribute under agility. That gives 5 governing attributes and 10 derived attributes, with unmodifiable luck thrown in at the end:

Combat
Strength
Hit Points (derived, shown as status bar)
Encumbrance (derived, how much you can carry, but affects speed)

Nature
Endurance
Stamina (derived, shown as status bar)
Resistance (disease and nature based penalties, possibly poison)

Magic
Intelligence
Mana (derived, shown as status bar)
Willpower (resistance against magical elements, and "mind over body")

Stealth
Agility
Speed (derived, experienced by activities such as running and swimming)
Dexterity (derived, your ability to handle lockpicks, pickpocketing, operating traps, anything fine motorics)

Social
Personality
Appearance (derived, shown as character traits, such as current clothing, old scars, diseases, health etc, affects mostly disposition)
Charisma (derived, affects mostly disposition and skill abilities to influence other people)

Both speed and appearance could have new color bars, i.e. yellow and magenta. Since also a mount should have penalties (they do in OB, you just don't see them very well), i.e. by the weight of the cart it's dragging, the mounts speed should be shown while mounted. The appearance bar could indicate your disposition with the person you're facing. Maybe common clothes instead of a full daedric armor would work wonders when talking to townspeople?

But each of the color bars should have three areas reflecting temporal, normal, and permanent zones, similar to what we see in UFO games. That becomes:

Health (black, red, gray):
Left permanent zone: Wounds - you can only treat wounds my medical skill or visiting a facility. A severe disease may gradually increase wounds to the point where you have no normal health left and dies.
Middle normal zone: Health - your actual remaining hitpoints. This part can be restored using restoration magic, potions, or resting
Right temporal zone: Sleep deprivation - will increase constantly, lowering your health/hitpoints, until you sleep and regain strength.

Mana (black, blue, gray):
Left permanent zone: Stunted - typically an effect caused by magical attacks that lowers your mana permanently. It will be restored when the effect is over in some cases. If you have Astral Vapors, this will not fix itself since the effect lasts until you are cleared of the disease.
Middle normal zone: Mana - available spell points for spell casting. This can be restored by potions or absorption (or even automatic with the right traits), but only to your current maximum as determined by how much potential is left.
Right temporal zone: Sleep/usage deprivation - will increase a little bit every time you cast a spell, lowering your mana potential. It pays to be well rested before going out to battle.

Fatigue (black, green, gray):
Left permanent zone: typically an effect caused by magical attacks that lowers your strength or increases your burden, or a disease.
Middle normal zone: your normal fatigue pool that will go up and down according to activities. However, it will never exceed the amount of the Health/Hitpoints bar. Try doing pushups the next time you have the flu and see how it affects your stamina
Right temporal zone: Energy deprivation - Similar to Health, this will lower constantly throughout the day, and be party restored when you eat (how much depends on food quality). If you don't eat and have low stamina, you can use a fatigue potion (power drink) to temporarily boost it, but will wear off when effect is complete.

Speed (black, yellow, gray):
Left permanent zone: typically an effect caused by magical attacks that lowers your speed or increases your burden, or a disease.
Middle normal zone: your current speed potential, as affected by (real) encumbrance, cart weight (for mounts), strength, agility, willpower etc.
Right temporal zone: external modifier, such as weather, slope, and other environmental factors that affects you and your mounts speed.

Appearance (black, magenta, gray):
Left permanent zone: permanent marks such as combat scars left by critical wounds. Also your health penalties and effects from diseases are added to this, lowering your maximum potential.
Middle normal zone: your current appearance factor against the NPC you're facing, that affects resulting disposition.
Right temporal zone: make this as small as possible by changing your armor or outfit in a way you think would be appealing.

Again, I just find it so weird that a role playing adventure game has so little emphasis on exploring and wilderness that TES games have suffered. Adventuring should be more than clearing dungeon upon dungeon. This "little essay" is my hope on bringing some of that into the game.

Until now TES proposed various bashing methods as well as a difersified set of magical bazookas.
We should probably focus on actions we wanted to do but could not because they were simply not proposed.
Here's a small list to give you examples of what could be added that I already wanted to do and could not :
- Climbing (walls, trees, mountains...)
- Craft various type of items
- Use improvised weapons (chairs, tables, bottles...)
- Find food, proper water, avoiding dangerous terrain... actively survive.
- Healing through unmagical ways
- Off course, using of a wider set of weaponery (spears, crossbows, slings...)... though we can already hit creatures in various ways.
- Tracking
- Brewing unmagical stuff (cures, poisons, beer...)
- Capturing, and training animals

It's not exhaustive. The idea is that we should first define the area we want the gameplay to cover. TES are sandbox to live an infinite array of alternative adventurous lives. I just feel some of them could not be lived until now, like the rangers, druid, scholar, craftman types. The, we should think about the skill set and stats required to cover them.

Will it blend? That is the question.